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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:37 pm 
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The stem length thing really seems to have become a proper p!ssing contest

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:53 pm 
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joe D as a japan cartoon sticker, pretty cool
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:11 pm 
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The worst pissing contest is American masters racing and the 180-190lb dopers clocking up 1500-1700 VAMs on Strava

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:41 pm 
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Good points, Roselend, I realise these points but I think few people do.

I think another huge point is that pros are generally lighter than the riding public and are generally putting more power through their pedals. This all means that less weight is probably on their hands even though they are lower/longer. My last point is that I also think a lot of upright positions make people use the wrong muscle groups in pedalling.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:40 pm 
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KWalker wrote:
And you're not the age, fitness level, or flexibility level of a pro either.
Exactly. We may think we spend a lot of time on the bike and are more flexible than most. Trouble is, generally, we aren't.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:19 pm 
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A number of Pro's arent exactly yoga masters!
Long and low has been around forever and a day so there must be something to it right? I mean they do put food on the table by racing a bike so surely they ride the best position they can find.
Also, bars will continue to get lower if hoods continue to get more comfortable and fluid with the tops.
I always sense jealousy when these topics come up.

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btompkins0112 wrote:
It has the H2 geo......one step racier than a hybrid bike


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:47 am 
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I mean they do put food on the table by racing a bike so surely they ride the best position they can find.
Also, bars will continue to get lower if hoods continue to get more comfortable and fluid with the tops.
I always sense jealousy when these topics come up.[/quote]

I disagree, otherwise how do you explain the proliferation of fit experts, or the fact that any pro who joins a Specialized sponsored team gets a refit? There is so much in cycling that not strictly logical, and super low bars on road bikes are one of them. I'm not suggesting bars up to your chin is the right way to go, but if you look at scientifically, any rider's objective should be to minimize frontal area while allowing maximum power generation. Having your arms unbent and nearly vertical to reach super low bars adds frontal area and drag.

My personal opinion is that if the rider can handle it, he/she should strive for a horizontal back, and the arms bent at nearly right angles so that the forearm is parallel to the ground when riding on the hoods (which ends up being a fairly low bar position).


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:59 am 
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Correction: proliferation of fit "experts". The majority of locals I see, as well as the post-fit pictures posted on places like RBR or MTBR are atrocious.

Of course Spec-sponsored teams have to go through the token BG fit. It's probably part of the contract. And guess what gets immediately reversed as soon as the bikes are back in the truck? Kashekin (sp) gets his ridic stem put back on, etc.

From personal experience, it's annoyingly difficult to have a flat back supported by 90* arms. Your triceps bear an uncomfortable load at an angle that is suboptimal for more than short, short periods. Difficult to sustain for long periods. Sure, Moser looks good doing it at full speed compared to a lazily-pedaling Wiggins (inrng arms race), but if the two were to have a contest to see who could sustain their respective flat backs the longest, it's not going to be Moser.

Furthermore, if your wrists are to be straight in the 90* position, your hands are jammed into the drops. I have smallish hands and that still manages to be uncomfortable for me with a set of Ritchey Classic bend bars. I'd MUCH rather deal with a 160* bend with a flat back and hands where they belong than all the wasted upper body effort it takes to satisfy the Vroomen boot lickers. More drag, perhaps, but less OVERALL decline in form. Hence why the migration to smaller frames, lower head tubes, etc. It didn't happen on accident and it wasn't a conspiracy by Giant and their pseudo-sizing in the 90s. Anyone can still buy a frame with a TT high enough to displace their crotch and with a proportionately high head tube. But the pros and high-performing amateurs don't. For a reason.


Last edited by AGW on Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:16 am 
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BG Fit is a marketing tool. The riders go through the fit for promotional purposes, but I knew a few fitters that have refitted almost entire teams of Speci riders.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:24 am 
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One other thing to consider to being able to remain in a "flat back" position on the bike is really your core abs support. If your abs are not strong enough then the lower back, shoulders and triceps and neck muscles will have to compensate. Strong core abdominal support will allow you to hold that position without much stress to the lower back muscles.
One of the main reason people have back pain is the small, weak abdominal muscles covered in a few layers of what? Yeah you guessed it :up:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:51 am 
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KWalker wrote:
BG Fit is a marketing tool. The riders go through the fit for promotional purposes, but I knew a few fitters that have refitted almost entire teams of Speci riders.

Ditto. 100% true

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btompkins0112 wrote:
It has the H2 geo......one step racier than a hybrid bike


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:12 am 
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Look like Blythe might be running a camera (Virb?) on the K-edge mount.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:37 am 
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stella-azzurra wrote:
One other thing to consider to being able to remain in a "flat back" position on the bike is really your core abs support. If your abs are not strong enough then the lower back, shoulders and triceps and neck muscles will have to compensate. Strong core abdominal support will allow you to hold that position without much stress to the lower back muscles.
One of the main reason people have back pain is the small, weak abdominal muscles covered in a few layers of what? Yeah you guessed it :up:


There is so much wrong with that statement I can't even start to correct it.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:31 am 
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Wingnut wrote:
...So you question his intelligence because he can read a race, train well and win without devices?

I'll just wait for the third sigh shall I...


*sigh* I am going to question the ability to comprehend English... No, I question the intelligence in contradicting himself in the same paragraph, not expressing support over the sponsors product and not availing himself of said product. Again, racing and training by "instinct" and recording power data are not mutually exclusive.

KWalker wrote:
The smart way to say it: "I don't use a power meter...... but I have one on my bike because its useful for the team doctors and coaches and the new Vector pedals barely weigh anything so I don't even notice its there."


...Is what he should have said, and probably should do.

I'll throw this one out there for everyone. What if Martin was actually GC material?

There is no doubt he's a talented rider. But what if he, like just about every other single athlete out there, actually trains too much and doesn't recover properly and comes into a lot of races overcooked. How would he know?

Power meters are great for w/kg pissing contests or boasting on Strava how many megawatts you produced but there is a rather sound science for the prolonged and extended capturing and analysing of power data. And there are lots of other great testing methods which can help as well - but not many can be strapped to the bike for races and training and record data for the whole damn thing day in, day out.

I think people like to romanticise things about cycling - they talk about "panache", "style", "instinct" blah blah blah and things like "science" and "devices" are bad. The truth is not as pretty unfortunately.

A lot of people don't like that.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:34 am 
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Tapeworm wrote:
[I think people like to romanticise things about cycling - they talk about "panache", "style", "instinct" blah blah blah and things like "science" and "devices" are bad. The truth is not as pretty unfortunately.

A lot of people don't like that.


that 'truth' is called SKY

However, they've still not figured out one day racing.


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