HOT: Active* forum members generally gain 5% discount at starbike.com store!
Weight Weenies
* FAQ    * Search    * Trending Topics
* Login   * Register
HOME Listings Blog NEW Articles FAQ Contact About




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28265 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 1416, 1417, 1418, 1419, 1420, 1421, 1422 ... 1885  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:44 am
Posts: 1408
Tinea Pedis wrote:
Situations like this

http://stevetilford.com/2013/10/31/remo ... -hesjedal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

are why people are upset.


yup saw this on facebook

doping will never really affect me because im just a peasant racing against other peasants in peasant cycling leagues, but for the reasons that mr. tilford writes, i too would feel agreived. Doping isn't just the immediate affect on the 2nd and 3rd placed riders, but that article is a simple look into the many life paths that were drastically changed due to dishonest competitors.

anyways....

im not even a fan of LDH but he's been killin it. Hydro disc cx supporters must be smiling from ear to ear.
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Posts: 981
Location: France
All sports are susceptible to doping, at first glance the likes of football and tennis might seem to rely more on other factors outside general strength and fitness. However those other skills degrade when the athlete is tired, just look at how performances drop off at the end of a tennis, football or rugby match. If you can use doping to alleviate the general fatigue on the athlete then they will succeed. It has already been documented just how common EPO abuse was in european soccer in Germany and Italy.

Also factor in the long term fatigue when arises during a long tournament or championship lasting a period of weeks. Doping can easily give the leading edge in those sports.

The problem is far far more widespread than just cycling.


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:57 pm 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 559
Location: Here, there and everywhere
There are also tons of other sports where the "fittest" or "strongest" directly win- Swimming events , Running based events, Skiing, Weight lifting... and goodness knows how many other sports demanding a pretty narrow but fitness based skill set to succeed. As others have said the advantages with doping in team sports or more skill based sports shouldn't be underestimated either.

It is naive to think cycling is in some way special or unique- it is not. We have just been "daft" enough to try and solve the issues which plague all sports and are suffering rather than gaining very much as a result. For all of cycling's good intentions it is actually destroying the sport with no real plan forwards. It is a tricky can of worms to contain especially when so ingrained in the sport... the hypocrisy of people like JV does little to improve things yet he is largely heralded as at the forefront of clean cycling. God we have a weird sport! :D

Pretty sad times when the "Pro Cycling" thread is 95% dope talk. Lets have more gear/ tech/ team stuff to cheer us all up :D Anyone know if SRAM et al are going to be making a big push (rather than a token small effort as has happened so far) for discs on the road any time soon? Freeing up the rims from braking to reduce weight further might be nice but I can't see the power/ wet advantages of discs really catching on on the road...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:30 pm
Posts: 1566
DanW wrote:
It is naive to think cycling is in some way special or unique- it is not. We have just been "daft" enough to try and solve the issues which plague all sports and are suffering rather than gaining very much as a result..

+1
And consider that the "sport" that is probably most associated with doping is bodybuilding. You don't need any skill, power, strength, or speed at all....you just need to LOOK like you have them. :lol:

I suppose you need "dramatic posing skill".


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 3:57 pm 
Online
in the industry
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:45 pm
Posts: 2506
Location: London, UK
KB wrote:
ultimobici wrote:
Ahillock wrote:
I absolutely despise how certain riders that have been doping and been busted/admit to afterwards, get a free pass because they are 'likeable' or a 'nice guy.' However certain dopers (LA, Ricco, DiLuca, Rasmussen...etc.) are hated because they aren't 'likeable' or a 'nice guy.' Ryder should get the same punishment that LA. That is one thing that stinks like a outhouse within cycling, the disproportionate punishments that vary across the sport. The punishments need to be universal and consistent. Regardless of how big of a star you are or how well liked you are.
While I agree with you in the first paragraph of your post, I have to take issue with your second. LA and to the others are not only serial offenders but also, at least in LA's case, manipulated, coerced & bullied all & sundry in the course of concealing their doping. That in itself is what brought about the punishment LA received.

Disagree. The punishment for a doping offence is supposed to be two years. It's not supposed to be based on how good or bad someone is as a person. For me, Hillock got it exactly right. The six month punishments that others received is completely wrong IMO. I don't disagree that LA behaved badly. But if you take drugs you're no better or worse than anyone else. And as TP pointed in his link, the hypocrisy is sickening.
I disagree.
RH, for the time being at least, cannot be banned. His admission relates to an offence outside the SOL.
There is a difference between the likes of LA, Ricco, Di Luca et al and the riders who testified and received 6 month bans. The former have been caught multiple times and, in LA's case, have been enabler/coercer in others doping. In addition he refused to cooperate, trying to derail proceedings.

The testimony of those riders paved the way to LA's exposure, the revelations about the UCI and McQuaid's ousting. That has to be worth a substantial reduction in my opinion. That said, I feel all bans should be effective during the season, rather than during the winter.

RH's situation is more problematic. He claims he only doped 8 + years ago. I don't buy that at all. But unfortunately, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, there's nothing to answer.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:58 am
Posts: 832
Location: 604
Awesome and telling tweet considering RH and GK were teammates, shared a coach and were pretty much inseparable for his early career.....

https://twitter.com/GeoffKabush/status/396080565310324737

I keep harping on about the affect on Canadian cyclists but another fine example today of the worst part of doping and its long term affects on career's of people doing it honestly. Not a huge fan of Parisien when I raced but but he is out of a contract for next year after winning a stage at Catalunya this year. 0 wins for RH this year but his past results mean he will continue to get paid well.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/francois-parisien-unconvinced-by-hesjedals-doping-confession



Anyways..... on disks:

I feel like if the sponsors really want to push it then it will go in the pros and trickle down to amateur racing. I feel like this was the case for electronic shifting. I haven't used it but have teammates that love it however I don't think it was demand from the pro teams that brought it to cycling. I say that after reading comments from pros (evans giro, wiggins bike wall toss) that were let down by it in the past couple years.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:02 am
Posts: 2310
Location: On the bike
DanW wrote:
Freeing up the rims from braking to reduce weight further might be nice but I can't see the power/ wet advantages of discs really catching on on the road...


That weight lost in rim will be added elsewhere to the disc system. Doubt it will be a net loss.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 559
Location: Here, there and everywhere
I doubt any real benefits for disks on the road too. Slightly reducing rotating mass in the rims (assuming the rims don't need to be beefed up to deal with the higher braking forces) was all I can think of as a benefit... I am wondering how aggressively the sponsors will push discs and how the peleton will respond. Didn't Cav run disks in a few races then swap bikes pretty quickly? Trying to make a disc caliper more "aero" should be a fun experiment too given all the hidden normal brakes at the moment :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:44 am
Posts: 1408
DanW wrote:
Didn't Cav run disks in a few races then swap bikes pretty quickly? Trying to make a disc caliper more "aero" should be a fun experiment too given all the hidden normal brakes at the moment :)


not that i recall. He used hydro rim brakes from sram for like a stage or two of the le tour.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:17 pm
Posts: 873
Location: Hamar, Norway
Cav was running hydraulic rim brakes.

_________________
Bianchi-Campagnolo


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 559
Location: Here, there and everywhere
Yes, that was what I was thinking of! So has anyone run discs on the road? Any chance of hydro rim brakes becoming widespread instead? Even if just as a marketing exercise?

Disc brakes on the road seem a bit like the 29er marketing push in the MTB world (i.e. some benefits but a bit limited market, XC race, and not quite the uptake companies like Giant hoped for) and Hydro rim brakes on the road seems like 650b in mountain biking (i.e. the compromise for a new marketing push but more practical for most users)... that would be my cyncial view anyway :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Posts: 3935
Location: Bay Area
Bodybuilders have used EPO. Pro World's Strongest Man Competitor Jesse Marunde died, most associates believe, from EPO complications. Its a drug that I can see improving almost every sport where you move for some measured period of time.

Its not just EPO either, but the idea of being willing to knowingly violate the rules to improve performance.

_________________
Don't take me too seriously.
Bike
Strava


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:36 pm
Posts: 637
Those that are RH fans, does the fact that he admitted he doped change your opinion of him or are you still a fan? is he still one of the good guys?


Someone mentioned a study showing a long term effect that PED's have on performance. Here is an article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2478183/Steroids-boost-athletes-life-Call-dopers-life-ban-performance-enhancing-drugs-permanent-effect.html

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/steroid-use-benefit-lives-on-for-decades-research-says/story-fnb64oi6-1226748147451

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131027205618.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24730151

So maybe sports should move to the one time and out rule if taking PED's really does provide long term benefits. Kinda messes up with the whole fair sport thing.

_________________
"Sacred to the god Aesculapius"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 559
Location: Here, there and everywhere
A life ban on the first offence could potentially push doping in the younger athletes if there really are longer term gains to be made. If you can improve performance through a short "tester" period then it makes sense to do it when there aren't the resources for widespread testing (i.e. grassroots and age group competition). I doubt there is any way to detect steroid or whatever doping use several years down the line. It's a very scary thought!

Also, the translation of long term benefits to cyclists from more endurance based doping seems in the short term seems very plausible but doesn't seem to practically ring true when you look at the drop off in performance with guys like Contador, supposing of course they were doped t the gills at the height of their domination and are now clean(er)


Top
 Profile  
 
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:09 pm 


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:35 am
Posts: 5020
Location: New York
Why isn't there a "Pro" Doping Discussion thread :noidea:

You can go all out there like the wild west. :twisted:

_________________
I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28265 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 1416, 1417, 1418, 1419, 1420, 1421, 1422 ... 1885  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

   Similar Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. 2015 'PRO' cycling discussion

in Cycle Chat

Frankie - B

0

950

Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:20 pm

Frankie - B View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Cycling news app

in Cycle Chat

tinchy

3

501

Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:39 am

btompkins0112 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Cycling in Burlingame

in Cycle Chat

KH1

6

268

Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:59 am

Dalai View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Cycling in skiathos!

in Cycle Chat

Beancouter

2

331

Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:13 pm

Beancouter View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Cycling Technology

in Road

YinYang

4

1119

Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:12 pm

coloclimber View the latest post


It is currently Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:28 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Advertising   –  FAQ   –  Contact   –  Convert   –  About

© Weight Weenies 2000-2013
hosted by starbike.com


How to get rid of these ads? Just register!


Powered by phpBB