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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:26 am 
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What is worse, to be banned prior to joining the team or being banned while on team/right before you leave team to retire.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:20 am 
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Ryder was DNF at the 2004 Olympic cross-country.

results

There is a notable lack of scandals among the top riders, in contrast to the results of any road race at the time. Was mountain biking mostly clean?

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Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:20 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:07 am 
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ban him, move on ....Next please


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:11 am 
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djconnel wrote:
Ryder was DNF at the 2004 Olympic cross-country.

results

There is a notable lack of scandals among the top riders, in contrast to the results of any road race at the time. Was mountain biking mostly clean?


A good friend of mine at the time was British XC champ and a former medallist at Junior Level Worlds.

He quit because he could not break into the top 50 without resorting to illegal means.

Sad.

RH should be banned and Garmin should dispense with his services. He had the chance to come clean with Vaughters years ago and seemingly chose not to.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:20 am 
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dj97223 wrote:
He admitted it immediately . . . after being outed.


According to the articles, he admitted his use to USADA nearly a year ago. Maybe he didn't come clean publicly until now, but he did so with the people who hold his racing future in their hands some time ago. I suspect, once he made his admission to anti-doping officials, he had to know it was only a matter of time before it would become public... regardless of accusations from former racers.

None of us knows what he did or did not tell Garmin. Garmin seems to have a history of taking former/reformed dopers and putting/keeping them on a clean trajectory. Perhaps Garmin knew all along about his doping past and felt it best to let the past remain in the past. I don't know. Speculating...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:27 pm 
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I'd bet the house that JV and others on Garmin new of Ryder's past transgressions. He did tell both US and Canadian authorities during the Armstrong investigation, he just didn't make it public like the others.

edit- the part that stinks is his 'Stuey' like confession and the fact that his admission conveniently came more than 8 years ago when he spoke to the authorities. I think he should put his hand up and serve 6 months like the others. Again, as I've harped for ages on this forum, we desperately TnC to level the timing and the field here.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:25 pm 
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If I'm to play devil's advocate for a minute here....you know what really stinks to me? It's that JV and other Slipstreamers have said that they weren't even great EPO responders (unlike Lance let's say)....so they decide to start a clean team, it's a just a touch nihilistic, no?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:31 pm 
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It's also looking like Vaughers will only hire people he knows have a secret history.

Who on the team *isn't* dirty?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:46 pm 
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IF someone who thinks that he should be banned, how do you explain all the people that doped during that era, are now (I hope) riding clean and make millions of $. Do you expect them just to come forward and say I doped.
I am talking about Boonen, Cancelara, Evans, Horner etc. They all doped during that time, but have not been outed so why should they come forward.

Same thing with Cadel Evans, I don't think he was clean when he was racing Mtb and certainly not when he raced for Mapei, or was leading the Giro for T-mobile. I do believe he was clean when he won the Tour, but why should he or any one else who competed in those times come clean? Let's just assume that everyone was on something during that time, unless everyone comes clean now, don't see why the ones that get outed, are regarded as the bad ones, but if you cheated back then and are still racing and have not been outed, you are fine.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:09 pm 
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My take is that when Garmin started it was a place for guys to go who didn't want to feel like doping was 'part of the job'. Obviously JV knew what these guys were into but he was no different and had empathy for those 'forced into it'. I agree it's easy to make fun of their past given the team's branding but on the other side what was JV supposed to say/do? 'I am starting a team for former dopers"? Besides I don't think there was a lot of quality, clean stock to start a protour team with. Mostly I think it was about himself and reforming guys with shady pasts by giving them an opportunity he didn't have. I'd like to think they are doing things right these days but really who the hell knows. We thought it would clean up after festina.

The Ryder case is especially interesting for me because I grew up racing/training with him. He clearly was an incredibly gifted athlete but you knew that the years at USPS/Phonak and his MTB results in a dirty era represented certain decisions. What is often missed though in these stories about guys being 'immersed in doping' are the guys who chose not to that he was competing with nationally for Olympic and National Team spots and most importantly funding. I got some interesting messages yesterday. A friend and former national MTB champ commented on years where he missed out on Canadian Gov't funding known as 'carding' that is awarded to support a handful of the country's top amateur athletes. That guy who chose do do things correctly missed out on funding and possible trips to the Olympics and is now out of the sport. That is the worst part of it. Will Routley is another example of that and wrote this article when the USADA 'confessions' came out.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Whistler+cyclist+Will+Routley+says+competitors+used+PEDs+aren+just+cheaters+they+criminals/7502237/story.html


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:27 pm 
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toronto-rider wrote:
IF someone who thinks that he should be banned, how do you explain all the people that doped during that era, are now (I hope) riding clean and make millions of $. Do you expect them just to come forward and say I doped.


Can't disagree with that.

The thing that irks me is the bullshit they all spout about how the truth will help the sport move forward, and that they're happy to help the authorities push for a better future, world peace, and fluffy kittens.

If you're going to keep your lies under wraps for your own gain. STFU when you're outed and f*** off.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:04 pm 
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Does anyone else see similarities to the "Witch" scene from Monty Python's "Holy Grail" in all of these conversations - both here and on the hilariously low-brow comment sections on the news sites? Or maybe it's just me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:04 pm 
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^ this! Ha!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:20 pm 
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I just need to stop reading this 'pro' thread. I'm not sure why I haven't before now....


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Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:20 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:55 pm 
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Well said prend!


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