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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:15 pm 
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tl;dr again?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Tldr? Really?

Ok:

Your argument is invalid.
Period.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:49 pm 
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Fair point on Wurf's newness KW. But would you agree though that he would be much better informed than you or other skeptical fans on what is going within the veulta peloton?

Point being that if there were any rumors (like Vini Fantini in the giro) or doubts about Horner within the group don't you think Wurf would have heard? And if he heard do you think he would risk looking like a fool in print? To me that holds a lot of weight.

For the record I don't really care if he did or didn't but I thought Wurf's diary said a lot more than other riders not saying anything.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:28 am 
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KW:

Several riders, who weren't asked, and who wouldn't know one way or the other anyway, didn't say Horner was clean. Therefore, Horner must be dirty. Perfect logic! :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:44 am 
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petepeterson wrote:
And if he heard do you think he would risk looking like a fool in print? To me that holds a lot of weight. .


I really don't think the fear of "looking like a fool in print" has ever inhibited anyone on the nutterweb. :|

To be clear, I like Cam's article and believe it. But I just don't look to any single opinion on the net as the final word.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:32 am 
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KWalker wrote:
petepeterson wrote:

Dude has been in the peloton for a very short period of time. Doubt he's seen enough to prove anything.

very short period of time? 5 years as a pro with a couple of prior years as an amateur. A pro for about as long as Froome or EBH. Sounds like a real noob to me!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:07 pm 
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petepeterson wrote:
Fair point on Wurf's newness KW. But would you agree though that he would be much better informed than you or other skeptical fans on what is going within the veulta peloton?

Point being that if there were any rumors (like Vini Fantini in the giro) or doubts about Horner within the group don't you think Wurf would have heard? And if he heard do you think he would risk looking like a fool in print? To me that holds a lot of weight.

For the record I don't really care if he did or didn't but I thought Wurf's diary said a lot more than other riders not saying anything.


I have never heard of any pro cyclist making an accusation of a rider before they're caught. We all hear all this 'the whole peloton was saying....' shit afterwards, but never before.

My argument can't be invalid since it isn't an argument. I think its a little weird, but I don't think its smoking gun proof or ties him to anything. Its more of an observation. I'm seeing very few people outside of Horner's team say anything positive and we saw a lot more riders saying positive things about Froome and Wiggo.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:16 pm 
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KWalker wrote:
petepeterson wrote:
Fair point on Wurf's newness KW. But would you agree though that he would be much better informed than you or other skeptical fans on what is going within the veulta peloton?

Point being that if there were any rumors (like Vini Fantini in the giro) or doubts about Horner within the group don't you think Wurf would have heard? And if he heard do you think he would risk looking like a fool in print? To me that holds a lot of weight.

For the record I don't really care if he did or didn't but I thought Wurf's diary said a lot more than other riders not saying anything.


I have never heard of any pro cyclist making an accusation of a rider before they're caught. We all hear all this 'the whole peloton was saying....' shit afterwards, but never before


closest thing would probably be kittel tweeting about sayar in 2013 tour of turkey. I mean i dunno if other riders can say 'so and so is doping' but kittel seemed pretty vocal and pissed that sayar was leading the tour of turkey....which turned out to be a just reason.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:35 am 
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KWalker wrote:

I have never heard of any pro cyclist making an accusation of a rider before they're caught.


I remember some guy named LeMond talking about some guy named Armstrong a while back...


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:50 am 
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Didn't realize Lemond was still a pro rider in the peleton.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:08 am 
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Degenkolb for Paris-Tours today, would love to see him win his first classic and he's got some form at the moment.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:01 pm 
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KWalker wrote:
I have never heard of any pro cyclist making an accusation of a rider before they're caught.
Well I guess that depends on what KWalker's intended meaning of "they" is. If "they" refers to the accused, rather than the accuser, then there was a guy named Floyd, who made accusations against a then current Pro named Armstrong, and against himself, while being an active member of the U.S. domestic Pro peleton.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/28/sports/la-sp-floyd-landis-bahati-20100529
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/03/news/floyd-landis-to-ride-for-bahati-foundation-team_107543

Not only that, but it seems that these accusations by the guy named Floyd played a, perhaps THE, critical role in bringing down the big fished named Armstrong. Now, if only the guy named Armstrong hadn't screwed the guy named Floyd, as perceived by Floyd, out of a job when Floyd's suspension ended 16 months earlier, then maybe the guy named Floyd wouldn't have ratted on the guy named Armstrong. And if the guy named Armstrong hadn't come out of retirement, then he wouldn't have been in a position to screw the guy named Floyd out of a job, thereby not incentivizing the guy named Floyd to rat out the guy named Armstrong.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:57 pm 
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OK... KWalker was obviously referring to current riders heading to Twitter or making offhand remarks at a press conference about other current riders, ala Kittel re Tour of Turkey.

The WW version of dissent is very annoying to watch unfold. It seems to involve eloquently reaching to the edges of an argument in order to nitpick it to death. Floyd's accusation was made as a part of his own confession, and from the comfy seat of the US Pro scene... and a far, far cry from the Pro Tour.

I wouldn't be very moved if one of Horner's retired old Saturn teammates made an accusation about his recent win.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:12 pm 
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KWalker wrote:
I have never heard of any pro cyclist making an accusation of a rider before they're caught.


not long time ago:
https://twitter.com/marcelkittel/status ... 6539102208
and he was right...

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:41 pm 
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ultyguy wrote:
Degenkolb for Paris-Tours today, would love to see him win his first classic and he's got some form at the moment.


:-D


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