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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:09 pm 
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A lot of pros have come out and say that they think Froome is clean.

Very few have said the same about Horner.

This speaks volumes to me.

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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:09 pm 


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:43 pm 
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I would think that the many tweets of congratulations/support of teammates would speak volumes, no? I personally noted many from the likes of Ben King, Fabian, Jens, etc.....do you not think they would know best?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:24 pm 
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KWalker,
That's really an interesting point. I don't think it's that simple, but it's an interesting point, nevertheless.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:56 pm 
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That is true. So why is Cam Wurf so convinced?

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2013/09/cam-wurfs-vuelta-wrap-up-why-horner-deserved-the-win/


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:04 pm 
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After Thor's victory today...

Image

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:05 pm 
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SalsaLover wrote:
I remember an interview with Horner around end of 2010 where he defended 100% the purity and cleanliness of LA

Since then I simply can't believe on anything the guy says


+1

The question is more of what they are doing at the moment.
Knowing about EPO usage when looking back at old grand tour stages throughout the 90s explains quite a lot. I'll bet my left testicle that history is repeating and we can sit down and do the same thing in ten years from now, with something more sophisticated than EPO to solve our questions


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:52 pm 
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Who were the ones that were saying Armstrong was doping?
Oh yeah the ones that were eventually caught and had no other employment options. Riiiiiight.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:03 pm 
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and apparently Armstrong's still in the center of the cycling universe...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:33 pm 
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Not that I want to change the subject from Horner speculation but there could be some interesting times ahead for the Sky BFF's. Porte obviously has shown immense potential this year and it is human nature that he will want to explore that. I don't see him being Froome's career Scottie Pippen but he has said he wants to stay with Sky.

This year he clearly built his year around supporting Froome in the tour and was very good. So is it possible for him to have a real go at the Giro and then be at his best to do the team thing in July? It will be interesting to see if Sky let him go full gas for the Giro. Recent history would suggest that it is difficult in today's game to be going well at both events.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/porte-id-love-to-do-the-giro-for-myself


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:22 pm 
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Big fan of occasional weight weenie contributor mike creed's podcasts.

Interesting discussion on body weight, food, eating disorders, etc.

http://cyclismas.podomatic.com/entry/2013-10-10T21_50_24-07_00


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:24 pm 
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btompkins0112 wrote:
I would think that the many tweets of congratulations/support of teammates would speak volumes, no? I personally noted many from the likes of Ben King, Fabian, Jens, etc.....do you not think they would know best?

Nope. Never trust the teammates. Haven't we learned anything from the past?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:26 pm 
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petepeterson wrote:

Dude has been in the peloton for a very short period of time. Doubt he's seen enough to prove anything.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:28 pm 
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KWalker wrote:
A lot of pros have come out and say that they think Froome is clean.


That's because it was the Tour, which shadows over the Vuelta like the Sun shadows Venus. During the Tour nearly ever rider out there gets interviewed and asked questions, especially about doping (given the history), and of course when prompted they would say whatever they need to say.

KWalker wrote:
Very few have said the same about Horner.


Were they asked or pressed about it by the media? Nope, certainly not by comparison. Media-wise the press didn't pay much attention to the Vuelta compared to the Tour. However following the victory there were plenty of statements of support and congratulations from those in the peloton.

KWalker wrote:
This speaks volumes to me.


I'm not defending Horner here - nor anyone for that matter, because they could all be guilty in the end - but I'm pointing out this statement. If you, myself, or anyone, is going to take one small sample size and extrapolate something from it you need to include context and also include other sources of statements for comparison.
Speaks volumes? Certainly. It speaks volumes to me about how little the press attended the Vuelta compared to the Tour. It speaks volumes to me about how much more emphasis and pressure on riders exists at the Tour than at the Vuelta by comparison. It speaks volumes to me that we're choosing to edit what we want to read from other people and excluding contradictory statements simply to support how we have already judged. We're guilty of this, no? But we're also capable of being fair, open, and balanced to consider everything and recognize those which contradict our prejudice.

KWalker wrote:
Nope. Never trust the teammates. Haven't we learned anything from the past?


Again, still applies to everyone. So with this logic, which if you want it to be valid sure let's do that, we shouldn't trust any teammate on any team about any statements positive or negative towards another teammate?

Huh. So, to be fair, team-mates of Sky have been touting their programme as being exceptional and, with marginal gains, leading to their success. We shouldn't trust their statements, right? And your boy Joe Drombowski, can't trust him either by your logic.

Can't trust Nibali's teammates.
Nor Cav's.

...Or, how about this: how about we stop the cursory accusations and "expert analysis" on bio-data from people who start off with "i'm no expert" and wait to see if any actual lab test results come back proving what you want to believe?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:43 pm 
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tymon_tm wrote:
and apparently Armstrong's still in the center of the cycling universe...


Armstrong's still in the center of some people's cycling universe...


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:53 pm 
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Lord :roll:

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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:53 pm 


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