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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Cycling really does need some strong leadership right now - not the clueless bunch of old boys that have let the media run roughshod over them for years.

It's about time someone turned the message around. Cycling is doing something about this. The sports leaders should be on TV asking why other sports are not.

Take Bundesliga Football for instance. Not one single blood test in the whole league throughout last season. This information came out of the French enquiry yet never made the news channels. Poor media management by everyone from the UCI to team officials and DS's.

People seem to busy navel gazing.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:56 pm 
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I have to say the current level of discourse in cycling media and mostly twitter makes me question what 'fans' care more about; the bike riding vs. the drama of doping. Perhaps cycling would lose a percentage of the fan base if the doping soap opera were to disappear? It would be interesting to see a graphic representation of cycling viewership trends from mid 90's to today.

Kimmage for one would be out of a niche and I would be fine with that. I find his speculations on Sky/Froome of late and his approach in general to 'journalism' to be an embarrassment to the sport. Look no further than how he handles himself on twitter for many fine examples. To me he's the Ann Coulter of Sport.

To be clear I'm not endorsing the omerta approach - I understand it is part of the sport and cannot be ignored. I just think too often lately the line has been crossed between reasonably questioning things and just throwing mud because the dope headline sells.


Last edited by petepeterson on Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:56 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:28 pm 
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airwise wrote:
Cycling really does need some strong leadership right now - not the clueless bunch of old boys that have let the media run roughshod over them for years.

It's about time someone turned the message around. Cycling is doing something about this. The sports leaders should be on TV asking why other sports are not.

Take Bundesliga Football for instance. Not one single blood test in the whole league throughout last season. This information came out of the French enquiry yet never made the news channels. Poor media management by everyone from the UCI to team officials and DS's.

People seem to busy navel gazing.


people don't care about procedures or policies. they care about what's in headlines, as it's as far as they're able to dig into any given matter. that's why in public perception football or tennis are clean and cycling's a dirty sport

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:35 pm 
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In relation to the whole doping thing my view is that one of the big issues is the "incestuous" nature of cycling. Ex-cyclists whom have doped in the past become team managers, coachers/trainers, support staff, etc etc.

Not that it will happen but there needs to be a big broom to sweep away the old, bring people in from outside of cycling (and even sport in general) and for the governing bodies to start really laying out some repercussions for doping. And like any act of deception and fraud usually the best place is the hip pocket.

He may be scuttled now by I am sure there was (though probably still is) some cushy "mentor" role or the like for O'Grady. Thus nothing really changes. And I do not buy the "I acted alone, and it was only once" thing, that line gets trotted out a few too many times.

Perhaps some sort of amnesty, something to get these people to really name names, expose more information, from which better regulations and controls can be implemented.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:23 pm 
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Tapeworm I agree in principle that would be an immense help but how does one practically do this to (in theory) almost everyone before 2006? 2010? Not many people would be left. To further complicate things it would seem that much of the current pro peloton hold riders of that era in high esteem. Look at how universally welcomed back Matt White (same story as O'Grady) was after his brief banishment....


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:38 pm 
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petepeterson wrote:
Look at how universally welcomed back Matt White (same story as O'Grady) was after his brief banishment....


Maybe they like having the 'always keep your mouth shut' type around?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:13 pm 
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tinchy wrote:
Stuart O'Grady on Lance's confession back at the TDU in January:

''Lance deceived everybody on the planet, us included, so obviously we wanted to believe it also - that he was winning the Tours clean,'' O'Grady said. ''We're all athletes out there suffering through the mountains and you'd like to think he was just training harder and working harder than we were".

Hmmmmmmmm :|

http://www.news.com.au/sport/robbie-mcewen-stuart-ogrady-and-simon-gerrans-cant-forgive-drug-cheat-lance-armstrong/story-fngr0c3c-1226557025866



btompkins0112 wrote:
That speaks to the clear double-standard in cases like this.....I don't think he is a bad person, I don't think any are bad people necessarily, but if we condemn one person as a cheat and excuse another because "everyone was doing it" we are not being fair. A lie is a lie no matter who is telling it.


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Exactly. Should crucify these guys just like LA was. And don't give me the whole he was in charging of the doping ring and injected people crap. Lets strip titles and wins from these fellows.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:22 pm 
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Tapeworm wrote:

Perhaps some sort of amnesty, something to get these people to really name names, expose more information, from which better regulations and controls can be implemented.



What would that do? We already know a huge chunk of them dope. I wouldn't be surprised if 100% of the top GC guys dope. Just part of the game. Just need to accept it and enjoy the sport for what it is.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:02 am 
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btompkins0112 wrote:
no worries, the Aussies will be throwing out the old "he had no choice because everyone else was doing it.....it's LAs fault" excuse for him.

You're being hysterical now.

Goodness knows a large enough contingent of any country tries to mitigate the crime when a rider of that nationality is pinged. So steady on with the generalisations.

Unless you're more in tune with common sentiment in Australia (from the oh so close Mississippi) than I am from, say, my back door. Truth is a lot of the public are upset and have no time for what O'Grady did. It's a minority in the press (and not all Aussie press mind) who are making excuses.

As for trying to implicate Cadel? That has to be a wind up.


53x12 wrote:
What would that do? We already know a huge chunk of them dope. I wouldn't be surprised if 100% of the top GC guys dope. Just part of the game. Just need to accept it and enjoy the sport for what it is.

Stop the habitual witch hunts like this, which do nothing for the overall image of the sport.

I agree, there needs to be a line in the sand. And soon. By the same token, like Tapeworm said - these guys cannot dope and expect to then move in to a team role when they hang up the bike. Team managers need to be firm and be part of the solution and hire guys without a shady past.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:53 am 
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@ pets & 53x12
Yep clearing out the old would be very difficult and there would be very few left, that's the idea. It's the one of the few ways to break the culture. There would be a dearth of experience, but this in time would change for the better.

As for the doping itself, there's a reason why it's banned and its not just about "a level playing field". There are some very serious health issues surrounding their use. There are more than a couple of kids wanting to be the best who have dropped dead of a heart attack. Now often this is due to an undiagnosed heart condition or similar but there is no way that using PEDs or doping aids this in any way shape or form.

I am perhaps biased in that I work with some amazing talent and I have seen what clean riders can do and I refuse to believe that "it has to be part of the sport" or "that you can't ride the TdF without it".

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:32 am 
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Tapeworm, i never responded to your post but i have trained with NFL players for over 5 years and i know it is a different elite athlete but it is still to scale. Humans after pushing hard break down muscle fibers which takes days to heal naturally. To work as hard as what i saw those guys doing you just cannot heal in time to go out and race another 114 miles in the hills. You talked about that guy running laps around me and i agree we are not in the same class but again it is all to scale. Those guys are riding with the best in the world, so they are pushing each other harder then they could train on there own. that is why practice is never the same speed as the game. I do not know if you really could be competitive in the TDF not aided by something, just to take on the work load that is put on the body over 22 days. why do you think it is so much apart of the sport? it is so they can heal, all the increase oxygen in the blood increases blood flow, which increases heal time.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:55 am 
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Tinea Pedis wrote:
Stop the habitual witch hunts like this, which do nothing for the overall image of the sport.

I agree, there needs to be a line in the sand. And soon. By the same token, like Tapeworm said - these guys cannot dope and expect to then move in to a team role when they hang up the bike. Team managers need to be firm and be part of the solution and hire guys without a shady past.



No you stop it. If you can't deal with it ignore my post and don't respond. Move on.

Regarding Evans, the guy worked with Ferrari. All the Aussies can now comment how it was just for "advice" and all that other nonsense. The sport is dirty. Has been since the beginning. Still is. Will be next year. And 10 years from now. Just enjoy the sport and accept it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:29 am 
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+1
I've accepted it and the simplicity is bliss.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:20 am 
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53x12 wrote:
Regarding Evans, the guy worked with Ferrari. All the Aussies can now comment how it was just for "advice" and all that other nonsense.


Do you or anyone else have actual proof it was anything other than that? Otherwise it's possibly one persons word (Evans') against everyone else. Probably only three people know the answer - Evans, Rominger and Ferarri

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:41 am 
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53x12 wrote:
No you stop it. If you can't deal with it ignore my post and don't respond. Move on.

I wasn't attacking you :shock: please, relax.

It was a reply to the question "what would that do?". I'm not even sure what you're upset over?


I'm simply sick of witch hunts. Leave those with shady pasts in the past. However that also means they have no place in building the future (ala Tapeworm's model).


53x12 wrote:
Regarding Evans, the guy worked with Ferrari. All the Aussies can now comment how it was just for "advice" and all that other nonsense.

Cadel has been consistent and always maintained it was one test.

There's never been a single shred of biological, performance based or even a Pro (convicted doper or otherwise) suggesting Cadel has been anything but clean.

It's not just Aussies who maintain this. But lets not let the truth get in the way of a good story.


Not that I mind what opinion you hold, you're welcome to believe what you please about him. Just something to consider.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:41 am 


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