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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:07 am 
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I think I recall in one of the interviews afterwards either Froome or Porte saying they'd had a problem with one of their team cars, so hadn't been able to get supplies earlier. Whether that's true or not I don't know, but if it was I can imagine you'd try and get through the stage on what you had until it became obvious a hunger flat was on the way.

However, I think inrng.com summed it up best with:

"...Sure it’s illegal but for all those railing against Sky’s tactics, all the other teams do it:

if you’ve seen a mechanic leaning out of the window to fix a rider’s bike on the move, that’s illegal
if you’ve seen riders being paced back to the bunch by a team car, that’s illegal
if you’ve seen a rider getting a “sticky bottle”, that’s illegal"


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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:07 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:28 am 
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Correct, there's plenty of illegal activities going on.
He was fined, it's done, end of story.

At this point I'm just interested in seeing the explosiveness of the remaining stages (until the Parisian Parade), especially between the breakaway riders. The competition for the white jersey remains interesting, somewhat. Quintana is fun to watch. I like his lack of expressiveness when he rides... it reminds me of riders from the Eastern Bloc: lots of fun, jovial and funny off the bike and poker-face on the bike. Really cool. I also like that he's a shorter rider (I'm taller than him, but I appreciate shorter riders doing well!). He comes from a small town that is super proud of where bike riding has taken him, featuring him on the cover of the town's website.... a town that is mostly centered around agriculture and livestock. He truly was born and raised at a proper altitude. He also is part of the growing wave of strong riders coming from non-European or North American countries, something I absolutely support in the need for a more dynamic and international peloton. If Chilé, Bolivia, or Peru had a better road infrastructure and safer riding conditions, we then might see more strong climbers hailing from those countries ... and, actually, the same issue applies to higher altitude countries like Iran, Nepal, or Butan. Eventually, perhaps. You never know! :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:42 am 
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Don't forget Kenya and African nations that have dominated long distance running for decades. Froome will likely be the first of many riders from that part of the world to confuse the cynics.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:43 am 
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Ghost234 wrote:
Those are wicked fast times up the climb... those push the records for the fastest "clean" times ever. Looking at the wiki times and the names without any doping convictions:

Iban Mayo - 39:06 - 2003
Jose Azevedo - 39:21 - 2004
Miguel Indurian - 39:28 - 1995
Carlos Sastre - 39:31 - 2008
Giani Bungo 39:44 - 1991
Miguel Indurian - 39:45 - 1991

Was there a tailwind?


Clean times?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:51 am 
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maquisard wrote:

ALL of this analysis is irrelevant without prior data! Sky are lying if they pretend they have no idea of his performance prior to signing him from Barloworld. Why are they not happy to share such data?


Because internet warriors/pseudo scientists/morons will then just claim that Barloworld were cheating and Froome was doping in 2008.

Some people, no doubt deeply affected by past traumas, will never accept anything that does not fit with their cynical viewpoints. Brailsford knows that. But satisfying WADA will satisfy 99% of the press - and they can do no more. Idiots will always post on the internet.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:54 am 
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Can we stop with the whole 'bonking' thing? If he really was that close to complete meltdown he would already have been faltering, having one energy gel wouldn't suddenly have given him the ability to finish the stage at full pace. He was 10 minutes from the finish, not enough time for anything he ate to have any measurable effect on his blood sugar levels.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:03 am 
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It looked to me like he was definitely in trouble.

There is a psychological effect with ingesting sweet liquids on exercise performance. It might be a placebo effect but it is there, I will leave it to yourself to search for the studies. Similarly an energy gel at the end of the stage will have an effect in the given time frame, or at the very least help with recovery prior to the next days stage.

It saved Froome from completely bonking yesterday and although it was an illegal move I am sure a few guys hung onto team cars or got sticky bottles yesterday without punishment.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:25 am 
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@ MattS. False.

Whilst the rate of glucose absorption is fairly fixed the mere presence of carbohydrates in the month can assist performance.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19237430

As for the bonking, even if Froome had been eating to a precise schedule (I have no idea if he did) he can still bonk. The above mentioned rate of carbohydrate absorption means that if holding a certain level of output which is burning through the energy quicker than it goes in...hello bonktown. Add to this an interruption or even higher output (like responding to an attack) and it will come on quicker.

As just for the people who struggle to understand human physiology there is nothing you haven seen in this tour which can, in of itself, be conclusive of any doping. So far, despite protestations to the contrary, everything is still technically possible, however...

THIS NEITHER PROVES OR DISPROVES THE USE OF DOPING OR ANY OTHER PED.

In short, the only way anyone can be proven to have doped or cheated is:- a positive test, blood passport anomaly, athlete whereabouts (WADA or affiliate body) infraction, or "other" - collation of evidence like eyewitness testimony. There's a whole bunch more right here:- http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/Anti-Doping_Community/WADA_Anti-Doping_CODE_2009_EN.pdf

BUT, outstanding athletic performance has not yet been ruled as a cheating as it kinda goes against the whole point of sport, dontchaknow?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:41 am 
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Froome running a new 9000 series SRM with O-Symmetrics. They must have both bolt patterns on the new spider.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/07/ ... kes_295660

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:45 am 
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Tapeworm wrote:
@ MattS. False.

Whilst the rate of glucose absorption is fairly fixed the mere presence of carbohydrates in the month can assist performance.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19237430


I'm aware of this. But I'm not aware of any similar research that suggests it can overcome the body's exhaustion of energy supply when already in failed state.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:52 am 
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The cynicism is understood but if it's overwhelming I would suggest stop watching all cycling. Wait, no, ALL sport.

A for gene doping, it hasn't even been established in the medical field, it is still a highly new and heavily researched technology, with only a handful of human subjects. I would find it highly unlikely to be used by a sports team... for the moment.

There are plenty of other substances which could be performance enhancing. Perfluorocarbons are one (one primary use was possibly for neonatal resus). All of which are still banned although the testing capability may not be out there yet.

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Last edited by Tapeworm on Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:53 am 
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Sep Vanmarcke had a mechanical problem and rode Alpe D'Huez on a 53. ouch.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:55 am 
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MattSoutherden wrote:
[
I'm aware of this. But I'm not aware of any similar research that suggests it can overcome the body's exhaustion of energy supply when already in failed state.


We don't know exactly what state he was in. Purely speculative, as is him putting it all on for "show".

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:55 am 
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strobbekoen wrote:
Sep Vanmarcke had a mechanical problem and rode Alpe D'Huez on a 53. ouch.
Sean Kelly just said on today's telecast that he must have been pushed all the way up Aplre D'Huez by spectators - that there's no way he could have gotten up on the 53 without being pushed. As to whether that's true, I (not Sean) offer no opinion.


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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:55 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Kermithimself wrote:

I call PR stunt.


Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Van marcke also said that his 36t was broken. I guess with da9000 you can run compact or full on that crank but 36/53 is a big jump(?)


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