"PRO" Cycling Discussion

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

Thanks for your insights, Tapeworm, always valuable.
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maquisard
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by maquisard

Even a WADA analysis is pretty much irrelevant unless the supplied data goes back far enough. One would suspect that Sky have data from Froome accumulated during testing prior to him joining the team, why else would they sign him without knowing his potential. It would be very interesting to see Froome's data from the start of his career onwards.

Bilharzia sounds like a smoke screen in the same way that losing weight and increasing cadence was for another athlete.

Or in the words of the infamous Fred Grappe!

"More than any other racer Lance concentrates all the technical, tactical master stroke to end to end, nothing is left to chance."

by Weenie


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Tapeworm
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by Tapeworm

maquisard wrote:Even a WADA analysis is pretty much irrelevant unless the supplied data goes back far enough. One would suspect that Sky have data from Froome accumulated during testing prior to him joining the team, why else would they sign him without knowing his potential. It would be very interesting to see Froome's data from the start of his career onwards.


I don't think there would be much data prior, not that many teams had that kind of data in the first place, power meters are still a little "new" for a lot of teams.

maquisard wrote:Bilharzia sounds like a smoke screen in the same way that losing weight and increasing cadence was for another athlete.


Smokescreen for what, exactly? It affects roughly 250million people, its effects and treatments are fairly well documented. Are there claims to the contrary? African water-bourne parasites give you WINGS?
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

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euan
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by euan

Liggero wrote:Stop the power analysis mess. Froome has the record in mt ventoux climb. Period. what else do you need?

BTW, today is the day. Today is THE stage. Enjoy...


He doesn't have the record for the climb. He has a record for part of the climb that was specifically adjusted so people could say he beat Armstrong
"Step forward the climber and all those who worship at the altar of lightness" - R. Millar

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Tapeworm
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by Tapeworm

Liggero wrote:Stop the power analysis mess. Froome has the record in mt ventoux climb. Period. what else do you need?


Proof of doping/cheating? If you bin athletes for outstanding performance then it kinda puts a stop to any future sporting event.

Ever.
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

maquisard
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by maquisard

Tapeworm wrote:I don't think there would be much data prior, not that many teams had that kind of data in the first place, power meters are still a little "new" for a lot of teams.


- No but Sky clearly analyzed his performance prior to him signing with them. They will most likely have data on his performance and capabilities while he was still at Barloworld ( aka Team clean! )

Tapeworm wrote:Smokescreen for what, exactly? It affects roughly 250million people, its effects and treatments are fairly well documented. Are there claims to the contrary? African water-bourne parasites give you WINGS?


- Yes, but in this case it is being trumpeted as the sole reason that Chris Froome was not the world beating cyclist that he is now, prior to his break through in 2011.

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Tapeworm
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by Tapeworm

maquisard wrote:- Yes, but in this case it is being trumpeted as the sole reason that Chris Froome was not the world beating cyclist that he is now, prior to his break through in 2011.


Some reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schistosomiasis
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/schistosom ... ction.aspx
http://www.who.int/topics/schistosomiasis/en/
http://www.health24.com/Medical/Disease ... a-20120721
http://www.onhealth.com/schistosomiasis/page5.htm

The tl:dr version: it would certainly put the crimp on performance if it were chronic.


Or Froome did suck and Sky tried out radical DNA altering therapy. Bit hard to prove either way ATM.
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

maquisard
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by maquisard

Fortunately I prefer to draw my medical knowledge from sources other than wikipedia, but still. It is an illness causing fatigue. I just have issues with the way it is being held up as an explanation of why Froome has suddenly broken through in professional cycling to be the best climber in the world... possibly in history.

Then we have Grappe's analysis which is essentially pure 'pop science' nonsense.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sk ... power-data" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The extremely high maximal aerobic power (efforts of five minutes) confirms that he has an extraordinary high aerobic potential, which means he has a V02 max (this has never been measured in the laboratory by his team) close to the limits of known physiological science."

So, he apparently has a V02 max at the limits of human physiology but Team Sky has never bothered measuring it.

Then we have this,

"It is evident that to be able to operate with a power profile near 100% of his maximum, Chris Froome must have excellent ability to recovery between stages. Because if the level of fatigue accumulates too much, it is no longer possible to be close to his records."

ALL of this analysis is irrelevant without prior data! Sky are lying if they pretend they have no idea of his performance prior to signing him from Barloworld. Why are they not happy to share such data?

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Tapeworm
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by Tapeworm

There was more than just wikipedia provided there. Very reputable sources if you care to read.

So, curious, what level of human performance would you expect from a potential TdF winner? Or an Olympian or any other elite athlete at their absolute peak? Slightly above average? On par with every other cyclist?

It doesn't surprise me that Sky wouldn't necessary test VO2max of riders, for training and performance it is a rather worthless metric. Power is the only thing that really matters (and weight and CdA etc). VO2max is great for bragging rights though.

Yes, Sky should release more data but how are they shaping up against other teams? I've looked but I haven't found any other teams sending off years of data on a rider, even if it is poorly analysed. Its a start.
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

Clubagreenie
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by Clubagreenie

Father Xmas , Easter Bunny and the Tooth fairy have lined up for SKY next year with Port being their lead out man.
I do feel for the Boogieman as he just missed the cut , sticky subject.
It will be interesting to see the blood passport for the three Xmas Bunny and Fairy ... Fred Grappe has already made it know that FAIRY has an unusual cadence including wing movement , however this should balance out when BUNNY exchanges his egg basket mid TT.
Contadoper is upset that XMAS has made it known he will shave his beard for more down hill speed and hopes that he won't knock Contadoper off his bike with his sack of prezzies.

Oh next years Tour , can't wait
2012 KUOTA KOM Team Edition Campag SR11 .....My mistress
2012 RIDLEY HELIUM being built up ....

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Liggero
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by Liggero

Tapeworm wrote:
Liggero wrote:Stop the power analysis mess. Froome has the record in mt ventoux climb. Period. what else do you need?


Proof of doping/cheating? If you bin athletes for outstanding performance then it kinda puts a stop to any future sporting event.

Ever.


Well, if you bin athletes for outstnding doping it kinda puts a stop to any future cycling event.

Ever.
Happy Trails !!!

pastronef
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by pastronef

Roel W wrote:About Froome's bike change: why did they take a bike of the roof of the car and why didn't they put a mechanic along the road? That would have saved time.
Stuart O'Grady did so in Paris-Roubaix a few years ago: swiching a bike with regular wheels to a bike with Zipps between 2 cobblestrokes just before the finish (and then crashing a few meters further).


it was Lars Michaelsen who crashed, while O'Grady was winning his Paris-Roubaix

HUMP DIESEL
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by HUMP DIESEL

"It doesn't surprise me that Sky wouldn't necessary test VO2max of riders, for training and performance it is a rather worthless metric. Power is the only thing that really matters (and weight and CdA etc). VO2max is great for bragging rights though."

Look at what Tapeworm states right here, and just look at Froome.

1. Power - He obviously has that
2. Weight - Again Obvious, over 6'-0" and 150lbs, probably less now that we are into the final part of a three week tour.

Can we all just except that every so often, not just in Cycling, but in other sports, an extraordinary athlete comes along who plays the game better than others? Jordan, Gretsky.

HUMP
Why are the best things in life always the ones you start last?

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kgt
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by kgt

Yes, we can. Armstrong was the last 'extraordinary athlete' in cycling if I 'm right.

Biff
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by Biff

Thumbs up to Riblon for making the break Again and keep trying:-).He also fought hard against impossible odds on the Ax-3-domaines stage...A stage he won in 2010.

by Weenie


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