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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Did you guys read Ricardo Ricco's tweet? A basic translation: "cycling has finally found a clean racer who breaks all records of doped riders!"


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:34 pm 
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Did this discussion happen when HR monitors were invented?


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Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:34 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:43 pm 
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For those arguing/believing in the UK Postal argument for marginal gains forget those same arguments were used during LA's time. In addition, this is the same Sky Team with their marginal gains that didn't put Froome in a windtunnel until this year, use the heaviest frame in the pro tour, don't even use an aero road frame...etc. So these guys who are suppose to be all about marginal gains have dropped the ball on something so obvious. I think this whole marginal gains crap is just that and a bunch of PR spin to cover what is going on behind the scenes.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:46 pm 
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Doubtful as the understanding of the correlation between a body's data and capabilities have been honed and finessed into powerful training methods is much more recent (post-HR monitor invention). Also, power ≠ HR.

However we're talking about a team that possibly found a loophole in guidelines that aides their success. What if that loophole isn't what you normally think of it (like a drug that hasn't been used yet) but is instead the focus on a calculated power output?

Just a general question: has there been any instances where we've seen a rider for Sky complete a race (not necessarily win it) without the powermeter 's head unit?
We've seen other racers on other teams compete - and win - without it (especially one day classics). Just wondering because it could prove the theory wrong.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:51 pm 
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Chris Froome just pulling away from Contador: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt5wpUIkD-I

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:52 pm 
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nathanong87 wrote:
MikeyT, real question, do you race bicycles? (not a jab at you), I am merely implying that real life doesn't happen like this.


Hey look I train and race because I love the sport and for me it doesn't get any more complicated than that. Sky on the other hand aren't real world, at that level there is no comparison.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:07 pm 
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To point out the most obvious: whether you race or not, EVERYONE HERE that is not on Sky* is amateur hour by comparison.
You may or may not have kicked ass and decimated the field at your local race, but your racing methods are clearly - even by what Kwalker has described in their training methods - a total amateur hour show compared to what Sky has in their program. So bringing in the arguments of "this is how I race! I don't look at that stuff!" doesn't matter: you are not on Sky. You are not coached by Sir Brailsford. You do not race nor train the way they do.

Reading the arguments of "this is what I do! so there!" is like reading the tire recommendations of a guy with a full time job as a desk jockey racing his 1984 Mustang on the weekends as more knowledgeable than the tire recommendations of a director working for RedBull's F1 team.

*who knows, there could be a WW member who is on Sky and frequents this forum?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:12 pm 
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What 10 months times can do for you. From being dropped by the likes of Contador/Purito, to leaving them in your dust like they are standing still. Guess everyone is not in top form except for Sky?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MScq8IltIEs


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:28 pm 
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tranzformer wrote:
Chris Froome just pulling away from Contador: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt5wpUIkD-I


I don't know why somehow the way Froome attacked Contador and Quintana, reminds me to roadrunner cartoon....meep meep!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:30 pm 
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You can read into it what you want to read. The fact is that Froome rode the TdF and finished 2nd. Neither Purito or Contador rode the Tour. So, it was no big surprise that Froome struggled at the Vuelta.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:36 pm 
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http://ca.reuters.com/article/sportsNew ... 9B20130715

Releasing consideration of releasing data to WADA. I think this would be the optimal solution.

Also, Alex Simmons takes an analysis to the predicted power outputs.

http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2013/ ... s.html?m=1

And finally, whilst I have only had insight to training methodologies of a few pro outfits (mostly pro conti level) I can say that being in the dark ages would only be the start of describing their training. Most teams don't have a central focal point for coordination of training or oversight. I do not find it strange that even pro tour level teams, even some who use power meters, really are not that advanced in relation to the more cutting edge of sport science. Sky had to go out of cycling to get someone that was (there are those in cycling who are but few and far in between).

My cynical viewpoint is that without the crutch of doping a lot of teams are still using the old methods and are found wanting. This neither proves nor disproves whether Sky is doping or not but may explain why, even on the gear, they are still tearing a new one.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:43 pm 
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nfecyle wrote:
I don't know why somehow the way Froome attacked Contador and Quintana, reminds me to roadrunner cartoon....meep meep!


Not the old "pedal hard until your opponent cracks, lets-up, and loses you wheel trick". Crazy stuff.

Perhaps it's more natural to come to a near dead stop and perform track starts repeatedly?

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 Post subject: "PRO" Cycling Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:58 pm 
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Let them all dope!! And race


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:00 pm 
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prendrefeu wrote:
Finally, for that common argument that this isn't 'entertainment' : No, it is not entertainment in the sense that we as an audience do not want to see scripted scenarios or fixed races... but you're kidding yourself if you think ANY sport at the professional level is not for entertainment. Do you think these results have meaning in the world? No, they don't.


and all this time i thought the point of competition was to win, where 'entertainment' was merely a by-product. Maybe entertainment is what PR people hope to achieve, but i cannot name any manager outside of recreational sport to say 'hey team lets go out there and have fun, lets just put on a show, who cares about the scoreline'.... we are talking about sport here still, not a boy band concert.

a professional soccer team buys a player, this player is exciting brings goals, step-overs, tricks, assists.... sells jerseys even, and the team still loses every game. Im sure the club is over the moon when they are entertaining. Im sure all the fans are waiting in lines to buy next seasons' season tickets.

Image

for this thread. here's a pro cyclist 12 o clock stuntin'. Sanchez :thumb up:
Image


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Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:00 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:08 pm 
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nathanong87 wrote:
^ this too. my only example of 'what happened' was mick rogers.

last year he was dropping fools in the mountains riding on front for ages, then where was he on ventoux , and if he was training with wiggins / froome, why does he not shed light to the public/riise ? I too asked about confidentiality while riding the metro to work.


First, Mick Rogers is 33. He ain't getting any better. Second, where was he on Mont Ventoux? Finishing ahead of every Team Sky rider except Chris Froome, that's where.

Sky did not have the strongest team on Ventoux, they were just the only ones who used their supporting riders intelligently. Contador had 3 teammates with him when Kennaugh was pulling at the front and yet they let him control the race until he couldn't turn another pedal. Tinkoff still outnumbered Sky when Porte was pulling, but again they did nothing. Sky were putting their domestiques through the ringer for a purpose, Tinkoff seemed to have every man out for the best finishing time he could get. All Chiefs, no Indians.


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