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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:03 pm 
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Razor wrote:
Anyone know who the Garmin rider was that took out Kyrienka on that downhill section? What a bone head move.


Looking at the re-play multiple times, the Sky rider took himself out. Hesjedal came up on the left side, which surprised the Sky rider (I guess he expected that if the team rode side-by-side no one would try to pass them?), and the Sky rider took himself out, falling to the left - actually about to lean INTO to Hesjedal. Hesjedal remained upright, continued forward, Sky rider falls down the ravine. There was no initial contact. The only contact between the riders came as Hesjedal stayed upright against the Sky rider falling to his left.

Bone head move? Yeah, I think Sky making the ASSumption that they could just ride side-by-side across the road and create a block without anyone challenging them is a bit of a bone head move.

Tant pis.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:06 pm 
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i wanna know how Cav made the cut but Kiryienka didn't.


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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:06 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:18 pm 
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I guess Cav wasn't pushing as hard the day before, his aim for stage 8 was just to finish and beat the cut - whereas Kiryenka was pumping it out for a looong time. It was an amazing display, but may have taken too much out of him...?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:38 pm 
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regarding Hesjedal's shades:

http://news.pocsports.com/2013/07/03/poc-welcomes-ryder-hesjedal-to-the-team/


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:26 pm 
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prendrefeu wrote:
Razor wrote:
Anyone know who the Garmin rider was that took out Kyrienka on that downhill section? What a bone head move.


Looking at the re-play multiple times, the Sky rider took himself out. Hesjedal came up on the left side, which surprised the Sky rider (I guess he expected that if the team rode side-by-side no one would try to pass them?), and the Sky rider took himself out, falling to the left - actually about to lean INTO to Hesjedal. Hesjedal remained upright, continued forward, Sky rider falls down the ravine. There was no initial contact. The only contact between the riders came as Hesjedal stayed upright against the Sky rider falling to his left.

Bone head move? Yeah, I think Sky making the ASSumption that they could just ride side-by-side across the road and create a block without anyone challenging them is a bit of a bone head move.

Tant pis.


From the replay, it looked like Hesjedal leaned into the Sky rider who may have been drifting a little left but it was not like he saw Hesjedal coming and decided to close the door on him :roll: . The Sky rider obviously was not going down until Hesjedal made contact with him.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:34 pm 
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So Hesjedal leaned into the Sky rider who was drifting left? In other words, the Sky rider was moving left, Hesjedal held his line as he was passing on the left anyway (and the road was curving to the right), Sky rider falls down? ... which points to the Sky rider taking himself out. Watch it again.

Again: tant pis. C'est la guerre.

It would be great to see a TTT towards the end of the Tour instead of these ITTs. It is a team sport after all even though we highlight the individual in the media, and if it takes the 5th rider to cross the line and you've only got 5 left, good luck. Your team shattered itself on a prior stage and now sucks balls on the TTT? Your choice of tactics. Team tactics.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:46 pm 
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Exactly what Hesjedal thought he was doing I've no idea but for me it was another example of stupid risk taking in the peleton.

Try to squeeze through a shrinking gap on the outside, near the grass of a mountain descent with a hundred riders close behind you? Yeah sure. F**k em' it's a race...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:47 pm 
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prendrefeu wrote:
So Hesjedal leaned into the Sky rider who was drifting left? In other words, the Sky rider was moving left, Hesjedal held his line as he was passing on the left anyway (and the road was curving to the right), Sky rider falls down? ... which points to the Sky rider taking himself out. Watch it again.

Again: tant pis. C'est la guerre.

It would be great to see a TTT towards the end of the Tour instead of these ITTs. It is a team sport after all even though we highlight the individual in the media, and if it takes the 5th rider to cross the line and you've only got 5 left, good luck. Your team shattered itself on a prior stage and now sucks balls on the TTT? Your choice of tactics. Team tactics.


I'd say Hesjedal realized that he was running out of road and made a calculated risk to go for it anyway.

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 Post subject: "PRO" Cycling Discussion
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:23 pm 
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So do we have a new 'worst descender' in the peleton? Poor Thibaut :-(


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:33 pm 
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prendrefeu wrote:
Looking at the re-play multiple times, ...


Kennaugh said after the stage, he 'felt an elbow hit him at 40k/hour' and it just took him down, so I would say you're the only one making ASSumptions.

ultyguy wrote:
So do we have a new 'worst descender' in the peleton? Poor Thibaut :-(


The French certainly aren't having a great time of it this year.

<edit>

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pinot-asks-what-am-i-doing-on-the-tour

Hopefully he can successfully seek help in dealing with his phobia. A great future contender.


Last edited by Pharmstrong on Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:34 pm 
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Argyle finger tape for Zubeldia

https://twitter.com/hzubeldia/status/35 ... 24/photo/1


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:10 pm 
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It was Peter Kennaugh's own fault in that crash. No fault of Hesjedal. Nothing malicious. Nothing done on purpose. Just a big oops and a fall down an embankment.


prendrefeu wrote:
It would be great to see a TTT towards the end of the Tour instead of these ITTs. It is a team sport after all even though we highlight the individual in the media, and if it takes the 5th rider to cross the line and you've only got 5 left, good luck. Your team shattered itself on a prior stage and now sucks balls on the TTT? Your choice of tactics. Team tactics.


Now that is something I could get behind and support. That would be quite fun and exciting.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:43 pm 
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maybe not malicious, but it was definitely Hesjedal's fault. Look at the video again - Kennaugh was out of the saddle, and as he swung the bike to the left, Hesjedal clipped his left shoulder/handlebar, which caused the bike to steer to the right, while his weight was going left. That's why he high sided.

As for the TTT suggestion, you might as well guarantee drug use. Vomiting all night and you can't pedal a bike? Too bad, you need to stay in the race for the TTT, or team leader is out of the race. Look at Astana - they haven't been forced to work the front, but crashes etc have depleted the team of 4 riders already.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:59 pm 
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That crash was no one's fault. None at all and that is clearly visible from the replays. Both riders made contact with each other, Hesjedal was just lucky he was able to retain his balance during it. Kennaugh could be given the blame as well since he made contact and was leaning to the left anyways. But I will go with a draw. Hesjedal had no fault in that.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:12 pm 
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@spud

To your first point: shit happens, the race moves on.

To your second point: shit happens, the race moves on. Drugs? Ask Sky to see what they say on 'drugs' and 'performance'. Let's say, for the sake of discussion, that the peloton gets clean through-and-through, and just relies on training methods/support/marginal gains or whatever spin you want to put on it... Then tactics become the biggest topic against all of that training/methods. Tactics matter.

Actually, come to think of it: get rid of all ITTs and only have TTT if there ever is a Time Trial stage. That way the jerseys can sort themselves out with team tactics on the roads/stages. You want to open up some time gaps? Attack. Don't sit in, attack. Your team goes all out on one stage and makes certain time gaps? Awesome! Now, do you think your team will be able to maintain that time gap for your GC (or other jersey) over the next TTT? Where do you want to place your pieces on the chessboard? You think it's better to have your team 'average +' the stage and do enough to mitigate time loss and then hope for the TTT to make the gaps? What if that other team decides to throw out some tactics ala-Schleck 2011 and jump a few minutes in the process? Then what? You have a strong GC guy and the rest of the team kills itself on one stage, leaving that GC guy to just stick on the wheel of whoever is attacking him and keep his time gaps... ok, great... but then when it comes to the TTT, where's your team, buddy? Had a Grand Tour of bad luck and you're down to 4 riders? Man, that's too bad. No sympathy though: 4th rider crosses the line. You want your team to just stare at the power-meter head units and ride by the numbers? Good for you, but it might not be a successful tactic in this scenario. The possibilities of how tactics play out will be absolutely enthralling.

It would make the whole three weeks much more compelling on tactics, regardless if the stage is mountainous or flat. It does not affect points/sprint jerseys or the mountains jerseys outright, but anything having to do with time will be affected...

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Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:12 pm 


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