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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:11 pm 
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I'm disappointed that King was bumped. But find it ironic that we complain on the one hand when rules aren't enforced, and then we complain on the other hand when rules are enforced. The officials, and the fans need to be consistent.

Honestly, I am happy to see King go home where he can recuperate and heal. I just hope he gets a chance to race the Vuelta. He's a tough guy, for sure, but there is no sense in risking further (or permanent) injury to barely finish a race.

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Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:11 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Pharmstrong wrote:
Regarding King; not wanting to state the obvious, but America isn't that popular in Europe at the moment. I'm not surprised that judge doesn't feel like bending the rules to accommodate. It's a shame though, being his first TdF.


This isn't actually true. The last polls in 2012 had aggregate approval from Western European countries in the mid 60's, which isn't too bad and was affected by low ratings from countries such as Greece. This is far above the global mean and higher than anywhere in the world except for Sub-Saharan Africa. Approval for the US leadership is a different story, but in Europe it has risen from 18% in 2009 and slightly fallen off in the past year. This may not sound too significant, but depending on the poll or survey you look at this is better than many EU countries view each other's leadership ability and much higher opinion than many EU countries have of each other.

In Spain, where you said you live, approval is 58%, in France it is 69% and in Italy it is 74%.

Sources (both of leadership and public opinion):

http://www.pewglobal.org/database/indicator/1/group/3/

http://www.gallup.com/poll/153929/Leade ... tries.aspx

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... d-the-u-s/

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:33 pm 
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The reason they decided to suddenly get strict about the cut-off despite obviously extenuating circumstances (stage 1 crash caused by complete incompetence by officials) is that King is responsible for chasing down breaks for Sagan. They likely consider it more interesting if breaks have a better chance of staying away.

This isn't about consistent application of the rules. To the contrary, the rules specifically state the cut-off time is a guideline and can be extended for a variety of circumstances, including bad luck. I think it's safe to say King had exceptionally bad luck, given the nature of the stage 1 crash.

On the other hand, Cannondale also could have cracked the pace off a bit to get him through the first part of the stage. That was a decision the team made. They have no GC contenders on their squad: #1 is Sagan. Obviously losing King is detrimental to their chances for stage wins later in the race.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:44 pm 
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KWalker wrote:
This isn't actually true. The last polls in 2012 had...


You're quoting polls from before the recent leaks concerning the US surveillance state? I don't live in Spain, looking at what I said I can see how that can be conferred. I'm British. From recent press here I would say the EU-Obama love in is on the rocks.

I'm not interested in debating politics, I was merely pointing out that if an American, or Brit were looking for sympathy, continental Europe would not be the best place to look for it at the minute.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:37 pm 
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Wow Cav took off. Hagen, Greipel and Sagan did not have a chance.

Kelly looking fit at his age. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Pharmstrong wrote:
KWalker wrote:
This isn't actually true. The last polls in 2012 had...


You're quoting polls from before the recent leaks concerning the US surveillance state? I don't live in Spain, looking at what I said I can see how that can be conferred. I'm British. From recent press here I would say the EU-Obama love in is on the rocks.

I'm not interested in debating politics, I was merely pointing out that if an American, or Brit were looking for sympathy, continental Europe would not be the best place to look for it at the minute.


It would still be better than most other places. The only thing more damaging to opinion of the US was the housing bubble and recession when combined with the waning days of the Surge in 2007-2008. I'd be shocked if it could get any lower than at that point regardless of domestic communication surveillance especially since more details are emerging that EU officials often knew of the activities.

Back to cycling, I honestly think it was a flub on Cannondale's part. Also, what value does he really have at this point to their team? It was impressive to see him suffer through the TT, but it's a 32min effort. The race hasn't even hit the mountains yet and I can't imagine him recovering any faster and being able to be up there in the leadout train as they had intended. I don't think referencing the time cut from a few years back makes any sense because in that case they would have disqualified almost half of the remaining field whereas this case its just 1 rider.

If you guys want cycling with firm rules, this is simply what it is going to look like.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Were I King, I'd much rather abandon than be time cut. Just like Froome's Giro ejection only a few Kim's from his abandonment. It would be nice for King's injuries to be considered a bit more from a history books standpoint re time cut vs abandon.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:05 pm 
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stella-azzurra wrote:
Wow Cav took off. Hagen, Greipel and Sagan did not have a chance.

Kelly looking fit at his age. :mrgreen:


seemed as Sagan got a bit lost at ~400m to go. given he was few bike lenghts behind Cav, 3rd place is really good. also, his speed in the final meters was higher than Cav's

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:22 pm 
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KWalker wrote:
Back to cycling, I honestly think it was a flub on Cannondale's part.


Agree with this, my guess is Cannondale's thoughts went like this:

Before Stage
- Ted, you're hurt badly enough that you can't even get down into a TT position
- Let's put you on a road bike, so you can ride in relative comfort
- At least this way you get to ride 1 more stage, a little farewell if you will

After Stage
- Holy crap, he almost made the cut
- We might have overestimated the effect his injury is having and screwed him over by not:
1)waiting for him just a bit (because we aren't worried about GC anyway)
2)putting him on a tt bike
- But let's blame the organizers instead

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 Post subject: "PRO" Cycling Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:49 pm 
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xnavalav8r wrote:
I'm disappointed that King was bumped. But find it ironic that we complain on the one hand when rules aren't enforced, and then we complain on the other hand when rules are enforced. The officials, and the fans need to be consistent.

Honestly, I am happy to see King go home where he can recuperate and heal. I just hope he gets a chance to race the Vuelta. He's a tough guy, for sure, but there is no sense in risking further (or permanent) injury to barely finish a race.


Right on.

I love Ted as much as the next guy, but to play devils advocate for a minute...

I think the organisers thought more than anything that if this guy can't get around, remember 25% is the max coefficient for cutoff, he probably shouldn't be inside the peloton endangering others.

Now the timing lark? That's the mechanic's fault for not moving the timing chip. Harsh, but...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:07 pm 
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tymon_tm wrote:
stella-azzurra wrote:
Wow Cav took off. Hagen, Greipel and Sagan did not have a chance.

Kelly looking fit at his age. :mrgreen:


seemed as Sagan got a bit lost at ~400m to go. given he was few bike lenghts behind Cav, 3rd place is really good. also, his speed in the final meters was higher than Cav's


Sagan is not a sprinter like Cavendish and had the finish had an uphill then Sagan would have a better chance.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:51 pm 
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What are those "winshield" glasses that Hesjedal is wearing?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:23 pm 
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Not sure if it's a joke... I assuming they are Oakley?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/slipstreamsports/9167663515/


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 Post subject: "PRO" Cycling Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:24 pm 
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Don't know what y'all are talking about....those are sick. I would rock those, for sure.


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 Post subject: "PRO" Cycling Discussion
Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:24 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:26 pm 
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uraqt wrote:
The issue is the rule is not evenly applied and it is full of loopholes.

From VN..
"At the 2011 Tour stage that finished atop the Galibier, won by Andy Schleck, Mark Cavendish was among an 88-rider group that finished more than 35 minutes back, well outside the 33:07 time"


You can't use that instance to say the rule is not being evenly applied. The rulebook has a specific, written exemption for groups the size of the one that Cavendish was part of - but I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anything about carrying an injury and dropping off the back of a TTT. Sucks for him, but per the rulebook it is a different situation.


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