"PRO" Cycling Discussion

[wingguy]

Yeah, maybe, but an 18 year old is an adult - and you don't need a PhD in Philosophy to figure out that removing blood, doing something to it, and putting it back in for the purposes of enhancing performance is ethically dubious.

[TiG]

I didn't say it was doping, I was merely very interested in Kittel's persona nowadays and how these stories reflect poorly with the great cliche of "we need to trust" this generation of riders. Also I think age a piss poor excuse, if Van Poppel tests positive tomorrow along with Quintana would you burn Quintana and let Van Poppel off because he's 19 as opposed to 23? No.

[boysa]

If it's illegal, it's illegal. If not, then it's legal.

Don't use philosophy, ethics or hindsight to determine what riders should do. Pushing boundaries defines professional sports. Leave the grey areas to the governing bodies to determine what they want to allow and forbid. We can assume the role of the purist and chastise Kittel, but then the same could be said for those that train at altitude or take aspirin. I prefer to let the letter of the law dictate what riders can and can't do.

[btompkins0112]

+1. If it is legal, then it is legal.


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[Tapeworm]

Re: budgets and practices. Knowing and doing are two separate things. At lot of what Sky does is not a secret, it is not complicated. Actually following through and executing this IS difficult for a sport mired in tradition. Monitoring and UNDERSTANDING power. Aerodynamics. Other things like mapping courses on google earth and then simulating the course on a computrainer (or similar) if riders can't physically preview a course. All technology available even to the amateur.

Watch the Sky YouTube channel, nothing amazing just "common sense" with things like their chef using lots of whole, organic foods. Garmin did similar as well. Also using the same mattress and pillow wherever they go (I do similar, the quality of sleep greatly improved when doing shite-loads of travel).

Having attention to all those little details may not directly add to the watts but it speaks volumes of the professionalism and a coherent and cohesive approach.

(And I'll put the caveat of this neither proves or disproves the use of doping for success.)

[dereksmalls]

Here is a good article from Velonation from 2012 regarding the situation when it first came to light. So yes, at the time it was not a banned practice, but now is. http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11017/WADA-states-German-UV-blood-treatment-was-not-banned-until-2011.aspx

[pastronef]

meanwhile in Iowa...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/picture ... ed-picture

[DanW]

Given all the post-2006 dope-free aura - Kittel tries something, but thankfully it doesn't work, neither is banned, so we're still in the clean racing territory

This bothers me too. The idea that the young up and coming riders are coming in to a completely different culture of racing takes a hard knock when stories like this emerge. Regardless of banned or not at the time, manipulating blood in some way must ring alarm bells for a young rider (if the culture has changed so much and moral compasses are indeed so reformed). He was putting a lot of trust in the guys arranging this for it to indeed be "legal" at the time and not have any negative consequences later on (does he really know how the blood was manipulated and what was happening?). Just shows there is still the desire in the young guys to win the big races by any means, just the same as there always has been- not that that is really a surprise...

[Kermithimself]

Oleg Tinkov is tweeting that he will pull out of Team Saxo Tinkoff. How much we should put into this is quite unsure, as he seems a tad like a loose cannon.

David Millar also preparing to resign at the commonwealth games next year in Glasgow.

[slyboots]

On Eurosport he was talking about working with another team with Tinkoff Credit Systems as title sponsor.

[Pharmstrong]

The only way I can read that is he wants Quintana and/or Movistar. I can't imagine Telefonica are short of money, or would be willing to see Quintana go. Anyone know how many years Movistar/Quintana have left on their contracts?

Is Uran still off to Quickstep?

[liketoride]

i was watching the tour for the first time and i was wondering if someone could tell me why guys in turns were just falling while others were not? was there something on the roads or did something break on the bike? As for the PED's after watching what the racers went through i am not sure how you could be competitive in that kind of race without using something. The real problem is recovery, to race a hundred miles mostly up hills is one thing but to do it for 22 almost strait days is something completely different. The body just does not naturally recover in one day. Going to the gym and really working out hard your sore for the next two day and it is even more painful on the second day. When i ride hard my legs hurt the next day and the day after that, so when i heard the announcer say that they guy is getting faster as the tour went longer that cannot happen with out the aid of something. I am not saying that something is illegal, all i am saying is that body tissue does not heal on its own overnight. To speed up recovery that fast PED's are the only thing i know about that could do the job in that little time window. Supplements help reduce muscle fatigue and speeds recovery but there is still fatigue and if you keep pushing it how do you really ever recover? That is just MO.

[jmilliron]

meanwhile in Iowa...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/picture ... ed-picture

Ha! I like the world champion rainbow stripes on the Mellow Johnny jersey.

[petepeterson]

kinda cheesey LA...

anyone know what a tour winner fetches for appearance/start fees at the post tour crits?

[petepeterson]

Given all the post-2006 dope-free aura - Kittel tries something, but thankfully it doesn't work, neither is banned, so we're still in the clean racing territory

This bothers me too. The idea that the young up and coming riders are coming in to a completely different culture of racing takes a hard knock when stories like this emerge. Regardless of banned or not at the time, manipulating blood in some way must ring alarm bells for a young rider (if the culture has changed so much and moral compasses are indeed so reformed). He was putting a lot of trust in the guys arranging this for it to indeed be "legal" at the time and not have any negative consequences later on (does he really know how the blood was manipulated and what was happening?). Just shows there is still the desire in the young guys to win the big races by any means, just the same as there always has been- not that that is really a surprise...

Have you done all of your reading on what the actual treatment entails beyond the sensationalist headlines? I ask because the headlines are perhaps misleading (shocking I know) and the journalism questionable in many cases. After some interweb research you may change your mind. It's certainly not a transfusion, and has nothing to do with O2 vector doping but I can understand why it is banned now as it is indeed a slippery slope...

So are athletes not allowed to receive a completely legal treatment when they are ill? To me this is no different from someone receiving treatment for a cold or illness such as bilharzia.