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aerozy
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by aerozy

maquisard wrote:Power is irrelevant, w/kg is what matters


Those power calculations take into account his weight (81kg). If his LT were 600W then that puts his w/kg LT at 7.4! That's just not possible.

A more realistic but world record breaking 6.5w/kg would give 81x6.5 = 526W. I guess that could be enough to maintain 50km/h with a light headwind (considering a TT cd). I'll give Cancellara the benefit of the doubt. Doing this after 250km does sound out of this world though... Im running out of breath as I type this :mrgreen:
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ave
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by ave

>Power is irrelevant, w/kg is what matters
Absolute power does matter on the flat. In theory once you're up to speed weight matters very little.
And yes, I know that in real life there's no such thing as absolutely constant speed, and absolute flat, but still.

maquisard
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by maquisard

But surely weight is to also proportional to Cda, although other factors like position have a major role to play.

A flat road parcours is also very rarely completely flat.

KWalker
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by KWalker

aerozy wrote:
According to Engery Lab, his average power output on the last 13K, done in 15'45", was with almost absolute certainty above 500 Watt. Seems reasonable to me, taking into account he was facing considerable headwind most of the time

If you add in headwind and a normal road bike drop position drag coefficient then you are looking at sometihng easily above 600W to maintain 50km/h.

If he can do that then imagine what his 0.95xpower 20min (LT) is on fresh legs! 500W...600W... 700W!? :unbelievable: I thought the very best GC riders had LT's of around 450W but then again I could be wrong.

His performance is on the very limit of the believable (scientifically speaking).


lactate threshold is often a different percentage of a 20 min. effort than 95. I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Cancellara had a much higher percentage closer to 98%.

Cancellara's effort was less than 30km long. He's also extremely aero on the bike, as evidenced by the ridiculous amount of time trials that he has won and thus I would assume that his drag coefficient is decently better than normal. He also stayed pretty tucked in the pack the entire race and did very little work and attacked Sagan when it hurt.

Sagan was immediately at a disadvantage when Cancellara opened up his gap because he came off a hard pull and then had to dig extremely deep to try and hang. Cancellara could've been very close to his limit, but since he didn't have the preceding effort it was easier to get that gap. I've been in Sagan's situation in a race before where I went over the red and it was really hard to maintain LT power immediately after. I could imagine the same being true for Roelandts and Sagan whereas Cancellara never went over and didn't have to try and recover at threshold, but rather built into the effort. Those who have trained with power can understand the difference that this makes on what you can sustain for a longer effort like that. Its also why many people blow at time trials- they go out way too hard and spend the rest of the race attempting to recover/push it at a suboptimal pace.

A 480w threshold for a top World Tour rider that weighs 175-180 is not too hard to imagine. Indurain was about the same and from the numbers I've seen from Wiggins (who is substantially lighter), its believable that a pure time trialist such as Cancellara might have a bit more in his legs.
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Rob81
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by Rob81

There's always a drafting factor from opening cars/motorbikes.
Paolini didn't name names but was talking about this just after finishing the race on Sunday, of course not saying that was a winning factor, but, in his opinion, still a factor that helped the guys in front.

Privateer
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by Privateer

maquisard wrote:Power is irrelevant, w/kg is what matters


Actually, on a flat course like the Flanders finale watts/kg is irrelevant, watts/CdA is what matters.

Boardman's hour record was at 494 watts for 49.7km on a standard bike with non-aero wheels. This was the EPO era, but I've never heard any allegations against Boardman.

Merckx's hour was 49.4km in 1972. He wasn't clean, exactly, but this was decades before really effective doping (i.e. that actually altered physiological performance limits, rather than just made you feel better).

I don't think holding those kinds of speeds for 10km is evidence of Cancellara doping.

aerozy
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by aerozy

Kwalker what you said made sense! Also the extra motivation (adrenaline) you get from being at the front helped him keep those +500W numbers. Oh boy what I would give to have his legs
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KWalker
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by KWalker

At the 2010 Tour Fabian did an 8.9km prologue at a speed of 53.4 km/hr.

49.5 km/hr is believable if you ask me.
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Guerdi
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by Guerdi

Devolder, probably one of the last guys on earth sporting a livestrong band.

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jipperd
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by jipperd

Sagan made an attempt aswel a few weeks @E3 Harelbeke!

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nathanong87
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by nathanong87

i dunno where he's been training but devolder looked DARK on t.v. wicked tan.

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djconnel
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by djconnel

KWalker wrote:At the 2010 Tour Fabian did an 8.9km prologue at a speed of 53.4 km/hr.

49.5 km/hr is believable if you ask me.


He would have gotten the KOM: lost opportunity!

You need to compare the relative wind conditions.

J.v.S.
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by J.v.S.

Cudos to Sagan for being the bike rider that he is and his class is beyond reproach but this petty incident shows that he has still quite some way to go to become a champion & gentleman. Nothing to do with being prudish but there are certain lines which you just do not cross.

dereksmalls
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by dereksmalls

Bennati using what I assume is mini iLinks for cable housing at Flanders Image

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koebes
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by koebes

I was out of my mind watching Cancellara going 55km/h and leaving the group behind no chance to catch him.
But then the camera focuses ahead and you see at least 6 motobikes in front of him. They rode side by side giving him plenty of chances to draft even if they are 20m away.

The exact same happened at Milan-SanRemo. The group would have probably not made it to the finish.

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