"PRO" Cycling Discussion

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

Moderators: robbosmans, Moderator Team

User avatar
djconnel
Posts: 7917
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:57 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

by djconnel

Ryder was DNF at the 2004 Olympic cross-country.

results

There is a notable lack of scandals among the top riders, in contrast to the results of any road race at the time. Was mountain biking mostly clean?

Monkeyboy3333
Posts: 632
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:41 pm

by Monkeyboy3333

ban him, move on ....Next please

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



airwise
Posts: 1018
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:31 pm

by airwise

djconnel wrote:Ryder was DNF at the 2004 Olympic cross-country.

results

There is a notable lack of scandals among the top riders, in contrast to the results of any road race at the time. Was mountain biking mostly clean?


A good friend of mine at the time was British XC champ and a former medallist at Junior Level Worlds.

He quit because he could not break into the top 50 without resorting to illegal means.

Sad.

RH should be banned and Garmin should dispense with his services. He had the chance to come clean with Vaughters years ago and seemingly chose not to.

xnavalav8r
Posts: 2594
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:09 pm

by xnavalav8r

dj97223 wrote:He admitted it immediately . . . after being outed.


According to the articles, he admitted his use to USADA nearly a year ago. Maybe he didn't come clean publicly until now, but he did so with the people who hold his racing future in their hands some time ago. I suspect, once he made his admission to anti-doping officials, he had to know it was only a matter of time before it would become public... regardless of accusations from former racers.

None of us knows what he did or did not tell Garmin. Garmin seems to have a history of taking former/reformed dopers and putting/keeping them on a clean trajectory. Perhaps Garmin knew all along about his doping past and felt it best to let the past remain in the past. I don't know. Speculating...

ultyguy
Posts: 2332
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:35 pm
Location: Geneva

by ultyguy

I'd bet the house that JV and others on Garmin new of Ryder's past transgressions. He did tell both US and Canadian authorities during the Armstrong investigation, he just didn't make it public like the others.

edit- the part that stinks is his 'Stuey' like confession and the fact that his admission conveniently came more than 8 years ago when he spoke to the authorities. I think he should put his hand up and serve 6 months like the others. Again, as I've harped for ages on this forum, we desperately TnC to level the timing and the field here.

ultyguy
Posts: 2332
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:35 pm
Location: Geneva

by ultyguy

If I'm to play devil's advocate for a minute here....you know what really stinks to me? It's that JV and other Slipstreamers have said that they weren't even great EPO responders (unlike Lance let's say)....so they decide to start a clean team, it's a just a touch nihilistic, no?

User avatar
MattSoutherden
Posts: 1376
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:22 pm
Location: London

by MattSoutherden

It's also looking like Vaughers will only hire people he knows have a secret history.

Who on the team *isn't* dirty?
Snacking on carrot sticks - Where did it all go so wrong?
-
Finsbury Park CC

toronto-rider
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:58 pm
Location: Toronto

by toronto-rider

IF someone who thinks that he should be banned, how do you explain all the people that doped during that era, are now (I hope) riding clean and make millions of $. Do you expect them just to come forward and say I doped.
I am talking about Boonen, Cancelara, Evans, Horner etc. They all doped during that time, but have not been outed so why should they come forward.

Same thing with Cadel Evans, I don't think he was clean when he was racing Mtb and certainly not when he raced for Mapei, or was leading the Giro for T-mobile. I do believe he was clean when he won the Tour, but why should he or any one else who competed in those times come clean? Let's just assume that everyone was on something during that time, unless everyone comes clean now, don't see why the ones that get outed, are regarded as the bad ones, but if you cheated back then and are still racing and have not been outed, you are fine.

petepeterson
Posts: 1402
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:58 am
Location: 604

by petepeterson

My take is that when Garmin started it was a place for guys to go who didn't want to feel like doping was 'part of the job'. Obviously JV knew what these guys were into but he was no different and had empathy for those 'forced into it'. I agree it's easy to make fun of their past given the team's branding but on the other side what was JV supposed to say/do? 'I am starting a team for former dopers"? Besides I don't think there was a lot of quality, clean stock to start a protour team with. Mostly I think it was about himself and reforming guys with shady pasts by giving them an opportunity he didn't have. I'd like to think they are doing things right these days but really who the hell knows. We thought it would clean up after festina.

The Ryder case is especially interesting for me because I grew up racing/training with him. He clearly was an incredibly gifted athlete but you knew that the years at USPS/Phonak and his MTB results in a dirty era represented certain decisions. What is often missed though in these stories about guys being 'immersed in doping' are the guys who chose not to that he was competing with nationally for Olympic and National Team spots and most importantly funding. I got some interesting messages yesterday. A friend and former national MTB champ commented on years where he missed out on Canadian Gov't funding known as 'carding' that is awarded to support a handful of the country's top amateur athletes. That guy who chose do do things correctly missed out on funding and possible trips to the Olympics and is now out of the sport. That is the worst part of it. Will Routley is another example of that and wrote this article when the USADA 'confessions' came out.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Whistler+cyclist+Will+Routley+says+competitors+used+PEDs+aren+just+cheaters+they+criminals/7502237/story.html

User avatar
MattSoutherden
Posts: 1376
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:22 pm
Location: London

by MattSoutherden

toronto-rider wrote:IF someone who thinks that he should be banned, how do you explain all the people that doped during that era, are now (I hope) riding clean and make millions of $. Do you expect them just to come forward and say I doped.


Can't disagree with that.

The thing that irks me is the bullshit they all spout about how the truth will help the sport move forward, and that they're happy to help the authorities push for a better future, world peace, and fluffy kittens.

If you're going to keep your lies under wraps for your own gain. STFU when you're outed and f*** off.
Snacking on carrot sticks - Where did it all go so wrong?
-
Finsbury Park CC

User avatar
prendrefeu
Posts: 8580
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:32 pm
Location: Glendale / Los Angeles, California
Contact:

by prendrefeu

Does anyone else see similarities to the "Witch" scene from Monty Python's "Holy Grail" in all of these conversations - both here and on the hilariously low-brow comment sections on the news sites? Or maybe it's just me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU
Exp001 || Other projects in the works.


Monkeyboy3333
Posts: 632
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:41 pm

by Monkeyboy3333

I just need to stop reading this 'pro' thread. I'm not sure why I haven't before now....

ultyguy
Posts: 2332
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:35 pm
Location: Geneva

by ultyguy

Well said prend!

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



User avatar
53x12
Posts: 3708
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:02 am
Location: On the bike

by 53x12

prendrefeu wrote:Does anyone else see similarities to the "Witch" scene from Monty Python's "Holy Grail" in all of these conversations - both here and on the hilariously low-brow comment sections on the news sites? Or maybe it's just me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


You must not have paid attention while LA drama went down. Or maybe you did and participated?
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."

Locked