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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:34 pm 
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Thanks Danton, I will.

But there are two different times he's presented to the press.

First that had no info, and the second that is also being quoted where he clarified...



But what I was really getting at was the part where not just he, but several officials are presenting ahead of themselves for the sake of presenting...

The media whipping things up is bad enough. That people acting in official capacity do it is simply harming things for the sake of self / organizational promotion.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:35 am 
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PezTech wrote:
Thanks Danton, I will.

But there are two different times he's presented to the press.

First that had no info, and the second that is also being quoted where he clarified...



But what I was really getting at was the part where not just he, but several officials are presenting ahead of themselves for the sake of presenting...

The media whipping things up is bad enough. That people acting in official capacity do it is simply harming things for the sake of self / organizational promotion.


That`s very true , all doping scandals in the last 10 years have had their share of self-agrandisers and self-promoters , including a fair few Belgian policemen , lawyers , officials and politicians , in all the recent Belgian scandals eg VDB , Sainz , the Wasps and Bread affair etc etc . All of them seeking to " profile " themselves.


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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:35 am 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:20 am 
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I think the insider at cycling fans anonymous puts it well.

Quote:
One incoherent doping apologist plus one bad translation leads to totally nonsensical blathering at Pez, where the editor is apparently on a permanent vacation. Not exactly surprising from a site that still supports Carmichael.

http://cyclingfansanonymous.blogspot.co ... pdate.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:23 am 
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EURO wrote:
I think the insider at cycling fans anonymous puts it well.

Quote:
One incoherent doping apologist plus one bad translation leads to totally nonsensical blathering at Pez, where the editor is apparently on a permanent vacation. Not exactly surprising from a site that still supports Carmichael.

http://cyclingfansanonymous.blogspot.co ... pdate.html

You seem to have the same hard-on for Pez that you had for LJ. WTF has custom paint jobs got to do with the subject in hand apart from your nasty little agenda?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:10 pm 
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djconnel wrote:
I like puzzles...
...Dmitriy Fofonov...


A weak hit, though.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:17 pm 
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KB wrote:
EURO wrote:
I think the insider at cycling fans anonymous puts it well.

Quote:
One incoherent doping apologist plus one bad translation leads to totally nonsensical blathering at Pez, where the editor is apparently on a permanent vacation. Not exactly surprising from a site that still supports Carmichael.

http://cyclingfansanonymous.blogspot.co ... pdate.html

You seem to have the same hard-on for Pez that you had for LJ. WTF has custom paint jobs got to do with the subject in hand apart from your nasty little agenda?


Blah.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:45 pm 
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I quite like Pez , especially some of the stuff Ed Hood writes , and the " Distractions " are always worth paying attention to.
I don`t think they are doping apologists.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:56 am 
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It had nothing to do with doping appology. Simply the point where governors and officials are "using drugs" to enhance their on camera or in-media performance...

And no problem with anonymous bloggers as entertainment...

While their anonymity means no credibility, it's an exceptionally clear example of the depth of character of someone needing them as a reference point for their simply minded trolling :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:29 am 
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Politicians are politicians and anti-doping crusaders are always going to play up the role of themselves and their agency, they need the profile and the budget.

Personally, I'd turn 99% of my anger on the dopers and the system behind them, worrying about the policemen is ok but some riders are risking their health and turning a beautiful sport into a festival of lies.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:48 am 
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Danton wrote:
Politicians are politicians and anti-doping crusaders are always going to play up the role of themselves and their agency, they need the profile and the budget. ... and turning a beautiful sport into a festival of lies.

Agree, but it doesn't make it right does it. Dick Pound loves the sound of his own voice and the Australian guy who replaced him jumped on the bandwagon immediately rubbishing cycling's admittedly bad reputation, but saying nothing about athletics for instance. Soundbites fall into the category of 'talks cheap, actions speak louder than words'.

Due process needs to be followed because gobshites like McQuaid, Pound and their ilk bring nothing to the table by spouting off before the results are known.

I want to see all the cheats caught, but it has to be done within the legal process otherwise you get mob rule.

As for your last comment, our beautiful sport has been a sham for a very long time. For once I'm with EURO on this, I choose to watch it, but I'm never surprised when another rider's caught and I find the barefaced denials absolutely sickening; and beyond belief that Armstrong can still brazen it out about how clean he is. Maybe Joe Public believe him, but very few in the sport do.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:50 am 
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Danton wrote:
Politicians are politicians and anti-doping crusaders are always going to play up the role of themselves and their agency, they need the profile and the budget.

Personally, I'd turn 99% of my anger on the dopers and the system behind them, worrying about the policemen is ok but some riders are risking their health and turning a beautiful sport into a festival of lies.


Danton , you must know how long cyclesport , especially pro road , has had a culture of doping , so when did it change from a beautiful sport into a FOL ?
It has always been a beautiful sport even with this regretable culture of doping. Now , slowly , that culture is changing , there is a huge change from Festina 98 to now. The governing bodies , organisers , teams and riders are changing their ways.
The professional malcontents won`t accept this , of course , but it`s true.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:22 am 
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You are right Steponas.

I think in the past doping was accepted by the public as it was almost appropriate. Yes Tom Simpson died of amphetamines and cognac but even truck drivers and factory workers were using the same aids to help them do long shifts on the road and at work.

Literary fans might enjoy Roger Vailland's 325,000 Francs, the tale of a cyclist who turns factory worker, doping with the other workers to stay at his factory so he can win (not sure if it's in English for the majority of WWs?), more factory workers dope than cyclists because they won't die from heat exhaustion.

So the average fan, and I mean a housewife or a non-cyclist would just say "it's so hard, they need help" but now things have gone far beyond this, into anti-cancer medicines and international blood transfusion networks, this isn't something your uncle or neighbour might have done to perform better at work.

My point is that if politicians and others are making the news in their hunt for the dopers, that's the price we pay for catching Ricco and Schumacher. I wish the likes of Pez would turn his fire on the cheats. Politicians will always behave like politicians but not all cyclists have to risk health, to cheat and lie.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:48 pm 
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Danton wrote:
but not all cyclists have to risk health, to cheat and lie.


I agree with this line of thought right up until the above. And don't mistake this as support for doping in any sense of the meaning. I wonder how much internal pressure is put on some of these guys to win at any and all costs? There is a great deal of exposure on the line from sponsors and they don't get a lot of air time when their investment in advertising is at the rear of the peloton. Perhaps it's long reaching to insinuate that this could be one scenario, but I wouldn't rule it out. Sponsors like product placement, and placed at the front means my stuff is better than your stuff. Human nature almost always associates like this. Of course it is not a phenomenon relegated to just cycling either. Anything that draws massive crowds is prime for getting the message out. Which in turn leads to placing maximum pressure on the rolling billboard AKA: the cyclist. As I said, it may be a stretch, but could be one of the factors why many riders make a regrettable decision regarding their health and risk being caught and labeled as a liar and cheat.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:40 pm 
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MachineHead wrote:
I wonder how much internal pressure is put on some of these guys to win at any and all costs?


I know several pro/semi-pro cyclist in the 70s that could not even ask what they were injected with or they wouldn't have a job/contract. They raced Canada and Europe (mostly Italy). Maybe some members here know this to be true in todays pro/amateur cycling?
This type of treatment is common in other professions, I'm sure you/all of us have seen this pressure to get ahead on a personal level.
Not saying this is right and personally don't respond to this pressure, but I also don't have a family to feed.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:55 pm 
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:55 pm 


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