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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:03 pm 
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geraldatwork wrote:
No big deal, just cut someones bonus from 50 million to 35 and use the 15 million for the team. The CEO of Lehman brothers got over 400 million dollars the past 5 years.

He got most of it in shares. If you worked in a company and someone said "we're chopping your pay so we can fund a hockey team or sponsor ballet", it would not make you happy. Cutting pay is often the last thing. One of the first things to be cut is the marketing budget.


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Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:03 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:42 pm 
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Seems as if not only the world economy is in serious trouble. These are sad days for sports, at least for my concept of what "sports" should be about.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:01 pm 
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from what i hear the peak of the banking issues wont be reached till next year Q2. Soo, that could very bad if sponcer money falls extremely short before next season. Looks like the sport will be looking to wealthy riders for donations to make it.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:56 pm 
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Revised Tour ITT results?

Stage 4:
1 Kim Kirchen (Lux) Columbia 36:02
2 David Millar (GBr) Garmin @0
3. Cadel Evans (Aus) Lotto @9
4. Fabian Cancellara (Swi) CSC @15

Stage 20:
1. Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team CSC
2 Kim Kirchen (Lux) Team Columbia @40
3 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Garmin @44
4. David Millar (GBr) Garmin @ 1:06

Interesting Kirchen and Cancellara are both on the "suspicion" list. ITT sweep for Garmin? I dearly hope not.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:18 am 
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djconnel wrote:
Revised Tour ITT results?

Stage 4:
1 Kim Kirchen (Lux) Columbia 36:02
2 David Millar (GBr) Garmin @0
3. Cadel Evans (Aus) Lotto @9
4. Fabian Cancellara (Swi) CSC @15

Stage 20:
1. Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team CSC
2 Kim Kirchen (Lux) Team Columbia @40
3 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Garmin @44
4. David Millar (GBr) Garmin @ 1:06

Interesting Kirchen and Cancellara are both on the "suspicion" list. ITT sweep for Garmin? I dearly hope not.


I can see why they got rid of the time bonuses in the TdF. Trying to rework all the results from the above would be a bitch. Does this mean Cadel may have won? Or lost by an even smaller margin? :D


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:01 am 
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Personally, I have Millar as the stage winner. Kirchen suddenly a TT champion, that's like imagining Schumacher winning a TT, it would be a joke. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:24 am 
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Tapeworm wrote:
Does this mean Cadel may have won?

No, since there are no time bonuses only the time difference between him and Sastre matters.

Unless they find something on Sastre, of course :(

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Graham


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:35 am 
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GrahamB wrote:
Tapeworm wrote:
Does this mean Cadel may have won?

No, since there are no time bonuses only the time difference between him and Sastre matters.

Unless they find something on Sastre, of course :(


My inference was that had they retained time bonus it could be a different story. But that could be said for a lot of "what ifs".


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:01 am 
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The latest from Pez, quoting the head of the French anti doping agency the AFLD:


"We possess considerable evidence from blood transfusions. We will only say later who it is," Bordry is quoted... And I initially thought that the
translation was mistaken and he meant "of blood transfusions" instead of From blood transfusions.

But then, reading on, it was simply wrong terminology. Not sure when, but the sooner someone tells the head of French Doping that a
Transfusion means blood out, then back in, and is not just a sample - the better. And one would think a guy in that position would have the lingo
down…



Yes, obviously the man is an idiot, not up to Pez's standards of intellectual rigour. But hang on, here's another report of the same
comment, on Cycling News:

"We already have serious evidence about cases of such autologous transfusions," Bordry said in an interview with the German
television sender ZDF.


Hmm, autologous transfusions. Not the sort of thing you say by accident meaning "blood sample". Maybe he really did mean "of"?

Maybe Bordry is not the one who is clueless? In which case the following might be a bit embarrassing:


But then Bordry is simply doing what has all too often become the norm for officials in cycling that, French or not, all seem to have
Napoleon's complex.
Dick Pound had it too… His constant attacks did little, but verbal slings at Lance Armstrong put him on the map, because it's great publicity to have
your name next to someone that has genuine worldwide recognition…


(Baudry is not an official in cycling, btw).

Pez continues:

The problem is that a lot of these organizations are simply not run by people of the caliber required to handle the increased responsibility.
What winds up happening is that there is a simple lack of leadership and a bit of a power vacuum and several people aspire to step to the front.

When you lack the genuine leadership ability, self promotion and hype is the next best thing, and in cycling, the easiest way to get the press
running for your door is to yell "I know a Doper!"

And the Press are hot-hot-hot to give it all the attention they can… Folks like Bordry and McQuaid and Pound in the past, do nothing but harm
the sport when they present themselves instead of presenting facts and information.

At a time when pro cycling needs eagles, we keep getting peacocks and vultures…


Seems that a time when journalism needs a clear and objective vision, we get nationalistic pandering and misleading diatribes from fan-boys.

I've lost all respect.

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Graham


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:00 pm 
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I hope Pez, the forum member here, isn't the one writing that "journalism" :cry:

But Graham, maybe you've got it all wrong. Bordry is actually trying to help athlete's health, and that's no good. We need to keep protecting the cheats, it's not good for Trek sales. And catching Schumacher? That's scandalous, just when German TV was debating whether to renew its contract.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:41 pm 
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I'm not for doping... What I am for is the people governing the sport not trying to be the star of the show and use doping as their circus spotlight.


For starters, I never say "the (insert country) and in fact have a problem with people from several different areas including north america. The nationalism thing is pure bullsh!t. In fact I say "French or not" to clarify I am not being Nationalistic.


Maybe it's good not to paraphrase but to quote fully and not take anything out of context or snippets...

And yes, I absolutely wrote that. And you'll not note a single case where I am mentioning a country or any sort of Nationalism.



My point is simply that in that particular interview Bordry simply wanted to speak to the press about nothing except to say hi might have further doping scandal.



In my opinion, when heads of organizations address the press ahead of having any information or data, that is simply doing no good at all and amounts to self promotion. Weather it's Pound (North America) McQuaid or Bordry makes no difference.


That Bordry clarified later and seperately provided information does not take away his other actions where he simply spoke up to the press about nothing at all.




This is the entire post.

Doping Celebrity:

It seems that over the past few years the biggest stars in Cycling have come under scrutiny for doping… While that's certainly proving itself out, the larger problem for the sport may just be that doping is now the celebrity.

Several publications ran headlines Wednesday regurgitating the Agence France Presse coverage of French national anti-doping agency (AFLD) chief Pierre Bordry's claim that there's more to come on the 08' Tour Doping…

Once I read the release I realized that he repeatedly used the term "Transfusions" to describe a sample.

"We possess considerable evidence from blood transfusions. We will only say later who it is," Bordry is quoted... And I initially thought that the translation was mistaken and he meant "of blood transfusions" instead of From blood transfusions.

But then, reading on, it was simply wrong terminology. Not sure when, but the sooner someone tells the head of French Doping that a Transfusion means blood out, then back in, and is not just a sample - the better. And one would think a guy in that position would have the lingo down…

Of course I could be wrong if Bordry's got 35 pro cyclists stuffed in a freezer awaiting testing, and I haven’t seen several of the top pros lately…


Enter Napoleon
But then Bordry is simply doing what has all too often become the norm for officials in cycling that, French or not, all seem to have Napoleon's complex.

Dick Pound had it too… His constant attacks did little, but verbal slings at Lance Armstrong put him on the map, because it's great publicity to have your name next to someone that has genuine worldwide recognition…

The UCI's Pat McQuaid also recognized the benefits of beating on the sport and grabbing publicity when he leaked the results of Floyd Landis' test…

McQuaid: "...we know that the French laboratory...has a close connection with [French sports daily] L'Équipe, and we did not want this news to come through the press, because we are sure they would have leaked it."

No way McQuaid was going to let the news papers get the publicity and credit first.

And the ASO this year certainly turned heads by allowing several tainted teams to participate in the Tour while maintaining the block of Astana… One would wonder though why the guys that own the world’s biggest race needed to prove a point by keeping Astana out, only to have their true intent questioned by those they let in…

What ever the case, they did get to say "Cheese" quite often in the process and increase their own coverage.

In the past decade, the sport has grown in world recognition and popularity and that's created added pressure on a lot of people running several aspects of cycling.

The problem is that a lot of these organizations are simply not run by people of the caliber required to handle the increased responsibility. What winds up happening is that there is a simple lack of leadership and a bit of a power vacuum and several people aspire to step to the front.

When you lack the genuine leadership ability, self promotion and hype is the next best thing, and in cycling, the easiest way to get the press running for your door is to yell "I know a Doper!"

And the Press are hot-hot-hot to give it all the attention they can… Folks like Bordry and McQuaid and Pound in the past, do nothing but harm the sport when they present themselves instead of presenting facts and information.

At a time when pro cycling needs eagles, we keep getting peacocks and vultures

___________________________________________________________



We absolutely need professional handling of the sports biggest problem,


Doping.


What we don't need is the grandstanding, regardless of continent, by the people that should be working to solve the problems.


Instead we keep getting people that try and make the problems as big a deal as they can in order to make their handling of the problem seem more important.

_________________
charles@pezcyclingnews.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:37 pm 
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Location: Lyon, France
PezTech wrote:
For starters, I never say "the (insert country) and in fact have a problem with people from several different areas including north america. The nationalism thing is pure bullsh!t. In fact I say "French or not" to clarify I am not being Nationalistic.


Not consciously, no. However you hammer a bunch of people who are not from the US (Pound is Canadian, yes?).
You also make the extraordinary claim that Pound picked on Armstrong to become famous. The implicit "Armstrong is a great man"
assumption is the give-away.

Dick Pound, whatever his faults, is known across a lot of sports independently of what he said about Armstrong.

Have you considered the possibility that people actually bitch about Armstrong because they consider him a liar and a cheat who has
done immense damage to the sport?

_________________
Graham


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:48 pm 
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Location: Phoenix Arizona
:lol:


Ah I see, you are speaking for my subconcious about the presumtion of a seperate subject.

Given that I can't read minds and don't presume to make an arguement by speaking for other people then telling them that what you say they're saying is wrong .......................... you win.

_________________
charles@pezcyclingnews.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:49 pm
Posts: 1046
Location: Stockholm
PezTech wrote:
What we don't need is the grandstanding

PezTech wrote:
we keep getting peacocks

I wish you would apply that logic to your behavior on this board and your taste in custom paint jobs.


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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:14 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:43 pm 
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Pez, you got the translation wrong. He said:
Quote:
Nous sommes en possession d'indices sérieux de cas d'auto-transfusions

Which translates as:
Quote:
We have got serious indications of cases of autologous transfusions

Whereby he's saying that the blood samples of some riders showed changes in levels during the race that suggest manipulation.

You're right to point to the hubris of some people charged with governing the sport but you risk blaming the messenger. We wouldn't have these problems if some in the sport stuck to healthy methods. But like I say, I think you made a translation mistake :oops:

If you want, PM me and run any translations by me next time...


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