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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:53 am 
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Location: EU
here we go again...


:popcorn:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:50 pm 
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Tapeworm wrote:
Is it in the UCI rules that he has to use Astana's Damsgaard system as his doping monitor or that he has to answer questions at a press conference?

Who said anything about UCI rules? I was talking in general about the fact that Armstrong or his supporters cannot credibly accuse an organisation or individual of changing the rules as they see fit when his whole life and career has been based around forcibly altering the world around him to massage his ego, while not giving a flying crap about the harm it does.


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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:50 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:06 pm 
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Posts: 1229
Location: Out there
EURO wrote:
Tapeworm wrote:
Is it in the UCI rules that he has to use Astana's Damsgaard system as his doping monitor or that he has to answer questions at a press conference?

Who said anything about UCI rules? I was talking in general about the fact that Armstrong or his supporters cannot credibly accuse an organisation or individual of changing the rules as they see fit when his whole life and career has been based around forcibly altering the world around him to massage his ego, while not giving a flying crap about the harm it does.


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

is any one else struggling to stay awake????


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:12 pm 
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I´m wide awake and with EURO - stay away or open the tests.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:18 pm 
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In 2005, some research was conducted on urine samples left over from the 1998 and 1999 Tours de France. That research was the subject of an independent investigation, and the conclusions of the investigation were that the 1998 and 1999 Tour de France samples have not been maintained properly, have been compromised in many ways, and even three years ago could not be tested to provide any meaningful results. There is simply nothing that I can agree to that would provide any relevant evidence about 1999

would you be happy to have your samples re-tested if they weren't stored properly????


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:03 pm 
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Location: Tokyo, Japan and Adelaide, Australia
I'm interested to know people's thoughts on this...

Don Catlin's wife died of cancer. I have read that he wears a yellow Live Strong band on his wrist. Is it ethical to employ someone to check your blood values who has an emotional involvement in the issue you are promoting?

If Lance was about to win the Tour, and bring in millions for his charity through new sponsors and tie-ins, and Catlin found abnormal blood values, would he feel torn about undermining Lance's chance at victory and his one last push via cycling to raise money for cancer victims? Catlin wants Lance to raise money for cancer - would he feel bad about stopping him by going public with a non-negative result? Would he feel that on balance it might better to let Lance cheat, thereby saving lives?

Of course, this is all in the realms of the hypothetical - but to me it seems it could be a little unethical to employ a supporter of your cause as your drug tester.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:11 pm 
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EURO wrote:
...For instance not allowing Greg Lemond to ask his questions at the Interbike press conference.


Greg Lemond was allowed to ask his questions. He even got to ask the first question. But in Greg Lemond style he had to be an a$$ about asking his questions...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:19 pm 
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Location: Phoenix Arizona
The tests are open...


The problem is that when you cant be sure of the validity of the samples, then retesting them is pointless.

The reason Armstrong is being allowed to come back is that he simply has not been found to have broken the rules.


I know it's not what some people want, and some folks have reasonable arguements.

on the other hand,

it's sure fun to watch ignorant, nationalistic bigots cry about the fact that the world has developed enough that it's no longer easy to unfairly descriminate against people.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:50 pm 
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drjones96 wrote:
EURO wrote:
...For instance not allowing Greg Lemond to ask his questions at the Interbike press conference.


Greg Lemond was allowed to ask his questions. He even got to ask the first question. But in Greg Lemond style he had to be an a$$ about asking his questions...


One of the 'rules' of a press conference is that the journalists are allowed to be an ass, ask difficult questions and expect an answer. To push for the truth and not put up with PR bullcrap.

Often a public press conferences is the only space where people are able to question powerful, otherwise controlling figures. Who else is going to give Armstrong a hard time and push him on this issue? He won't agree to interviews with Kimmage or Walsh. He has a press blacklist. He changes the rules to suit himself.

PezTech wrote:
it's sure fun to watch ignorant, nationalistic bigots cry about the fact that the world has developed enough that it's no longer easy to unfairly discriminate against people.


Why are you not jumping to the defence of Frank Schleck? Why did you quote a list of people 'supposedly' implicated in CERA use in the tour in the Frank Schleck thread? Do you not live in the world you describe in which it is 'no longer easy to unfairly discriminate against people'?

Given that inconsistency, it's almost like you are just a nationalistic, flag waving Lance Armstrong fan who wants different rules applied to your poster boy. Almost

I, on the other hand just hate everyone who dopes, and hate the ones who deny doping even more. That's consistency. Admire the American Lemond for his balls, hate the European Ivan Basso for his lies.


Last edited by EURO on Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:50 pm 
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PezTech wrote:
it's sure fun to watch ignorant, nationalistic bigots cry about the fact that the world has developed enough that it's no longer easy to unfairly descriminate against people.


I sure wish EURO would come out and just say it.

"I HATE AMERICA."

That said, it would be hilarious if LA agreed to the re-sampling and they came back clean*. EURO would have a stroke.

*A) They can't/shouldn't be re-sampled anyways. B) I don't think they would come back clean.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:59 pm 
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EURO wrote:
Admire the American Lemond for his balls, hate the European Ivan Basso for his lies.


just to stir the pot...who says lemond was clean?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:04 pm 
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Location: Winterpeg
Well one thing is for sure...Armstrong wouldn't even consider a comeback if he wouldn't know that he can kick ass big time. Throw Basso and Contador in the mix and there should be pretty good race coming up. And I'm sure none of them will use drugs to enhance their blood levels.

If it will be TDF showdown next July I just hope that Armstrong's competition has good teams and are well prepared.

ASO will be happy though at least after change in management. Maybe the new manager understands business better than the previous one.

520 Dan wrote:
just to stir the pot...who says lemond was clean?

He most certainly wasn't. I think he might be bitter that after killing his competition he got his ass kicked by these same guys the following year...because they were on EPO and clearly he wasn't.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:17 pm 
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Sprinter wrote:
drjones96 wrote:
Do we expect him to give back all 7 jersey's?


Erm, if he cheated, then yes. Not everyone cheated in every Tour he rode.

The "everyone does it" excuse doesn't cut it in any legal field.


This isn't a legal field. But it doesn't work in nearly any other field either.

But would you go back and toss the results of 70% of the peloton then? I don't like cheating any more than the next guy but if the that many of them are doping what do you do? You either declare a winner or you have to call a 'non-race'. Personally, I don't like the idea of the last decade of cycling being declared a farce.

Sprinter wrote:
(Oh, and the word you were looking for is "jerseys")


My appologies. English was never my strong suit. Thankfully I have you here to correct my ill use of apostrophe.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:23 pm 
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520 Dan wrote:
EURO wrote:
Admire the American Lemond for his balls, hate the European Ivan Basso for his lies.


just to stir the pot...who says lemond was clean?


Man no kidding. I don't know why he's having this pi$$ing match with Lance when he was likely on something else...whatever the drug was during his era.

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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:23 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:26 pm 
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Location: tucson
I think that a lot of people who kind were present during the shift into the EPO era figured what they were doing was normal but EPO, well THAT was doping.


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