My first "I was just riding along" incident...

[xnavalav8r]

About 10 km into a group ride this morning I heard and felt a pop, followed by the sound of a small piece of metal bouncing across the road. At the time, I thought I had hit a piece of debris which had "popped" out from my tire and skittered into the road. I didn't think anything of it until about 10 minutes later when my left side crank arm came off, dangling from my shoe.

I managed to stop and get off the bike without doing any further damage. I was riding my WW bike, with a THM Clavicula crankset and b/b. They cranks have over 5000 km use with no problems. They were installed per the THM manual using a torque wrench. But the bolt sheared off about 3 or 4 threads into the b/b spindle. There is still a piece in there which I can clearly see, but will likely need to drill into and use an "easy out" to remove.

I couldn't find the cover plate despite my best efforts and those of my ride partners.

I've contacted THM to see if I can buy the part direct. Does anyone else know where I can buy the part online? I'm in a very rural part of Japan and my LBS can't help me.... unless I ride a 3-speed with a basket on the front.

[jjmstang]

When you get the 3-speed with the basket on the front.....get pictures will ya

[xnavalav8r]

When you get the 3-speed with the basket on the front.....get pictures will ya

I haven't been able to find one with a carbon fiber basket yet...

[xnavalav8r]

So Juanmoretime was absolutely correct. THM contacted me on Monday regarding my inquiry to purchase replacement parts for my crankset. Only rather than sell me what I need they simply asked for my address and are sending the parts in the mail. Clearly the only thing that matches THM's quality is their customer service. I'll be doing business with THM again in the future and wholeheartedly recommend them to anyone looking for quality components.

[record]

great to hear that such a customer service exists!

[xnavalav8r]

So I'm preparing to repair my crankset. The folks at THM have shipped me the parts. I was planning to drill a small hole into the remnants of the bolt that snapped, then remove it with an "easy out." But the more I look at it, the less certain I am the bolt broke off in there. All I see is carbon and no threads. Is it possible the failure wasn't the bolt but the insert the bolt threaded into? Anyone ever have a failure like this before with a Clavicula crankset?

I asked the guys at THM if it's possible to send it back to them for evaluation and possibly repairs. I'm past any kind of warranty but I don't want to destroy what may be a repairable crankset. I'm waiting for their reply but am curious if anyone else ever had a similar experience.

[xnavalav8r]

The guys at THM are fantstic! While they aren't doing it for free, they are going to evaluate and repair my crankset. I wasn't looking for or expecting anything free. I'm just really happy they are willing to work with me. And I am assuming (dangerous i know) that a repair will be much less expensive than replacement.

IF ANYONE IS CONSIDERING THM PRODUCTS I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THEM!!!

They may not be inexpensive, but they stand behind their products. That is getting to be a rare situation anywhere these days.

[mathi]

Credit were credits due THM

[stella-azzurra]

I would see this as a replace situation rather then a repair. But since you are passed the warranty period then it's somewhat fair to offer to repair it at a lower cost then a new one. But if you think about it, the warranties are made to expire usually before the product has broken. Although the metal insert should not come out of it's housing it does on carbon cranks. Not all the time but there is a certain probability of failure that the warranty covers only to a point. You are lucky that nothing happened to you but keep that in mind when purchasing carbon cranks.

[Starter]

I feel like I'm in crazy land.

Maybe I just expect more from the companies I buy from, but I'd expect a brand new crankset for free. You only had a little over 3000 miles on it. It failed in a manner that could have killed you on a different stretch of road. I'm flabbergasted that folks here are applauding them for charging him to fix an obvious design/manufacturing flaw. This is close to a thousand dollar crankset, people. You're paying them a heavy premium... why the "anything-more-than-the-middle-finger-I-will-gratefully-accept" attitude towards their customer service?

By comparison, when my FSA K-Force failed due to the non-drive side bolt popping off with the arm causing me to crash, FSA was horrified, sent me out a brand new crankset (an upgrade to the K-Force Light), a new set of SLK Compact carbon bars, and various other goodies... That's customer service.

[GrahamB]

I feel like I'm in crazy land.

You are, but not here.

This is a part that weighs 40% less than the Dura Ace equivalent. If you imagine that somehow by paying a lot of money you avoid the laws of
physics, you don't. You buy something that light, you are accepting the responsibility for using something with a much smaller margin for abuse.

Let's think about what that screw does... it pre-tensions the bearings which are then locked in place by clamping the crank arm to the axle,
just as does the bolt in a headset. It's not meant to be structural and should be under no stress in use. My guess is that the clamp bolt worked
loose, allowing the tension bolt to be stressed and hence fail. That's supported by the fact the arm then fell off a few minutes later.

So the real problem is the clamp bolt working lose. That could be a design issue, or incorrect torquing, or lack of threadlock compound...
or simply that on a super-light component, it needs to be checked quite often. I'm not suggesting the OP was at fault, but the difference
between "normal use" and "inadequate maintenance" is going to be much finer with a lightweight part. Some owners *will* screw up, with the
best will in the world. So to suggest that the manufacturer should replace all such failures, even outside the warranty period, is silly: you're
asking for a lifetime, unconditional warranty against screws coming loose!
If such a thing was required, either the price would have to double to cover the cost, or such parts would simply no longer be made.

I'm happy to take the responsibility in return for the freedom to buy light parts.

As for the "it might have killed in other circumstances"... a flat tyre might kill in certain circumstances. A tree might fall on your head.
Life is full of risks...

[Starter]

I feel like I'm in crazy land.

You are, but not here.

This is a part that weighs 40% less than the Dura Ace equivalent. If you imagine that somehow by paying a lot of money you avoid the laws of
physics, you don't. You buy something that light, you are accepting the responsibility for using something with a much smaller margin for abuse.

Let's think about what that screw does... it pre-tensions the bearings which are then locked in place by clamping the crank arm to the axle,
just as does the bolt in a headset. It's not meant to be structural and should be under no stress in use. My guess is that the clamp bolt worked
loose, allowing the tension bolt to be stressed and hence fail. That's supported by the fact the arm then fell off a few minutes later.

So the real problem is the clamp bolt working lose. That could be a design issue, or incorrect torquing, or lack of threadlock compound...
or simply that on a super-light component, it needs to be checked quite often. I'm not suggesting the OP was at fault, but the difference
between "normal use" and "inadequate maintenance" is going to be much finer with a lightweight part. Some owners *will* screw up, with the
best will in the world. So to suggest that the manufacturer should replace all such failures, even outside the warranty period, is silly: you're
asking for a lifetime, unconditional warranty against screws coming loose!
If such a thing was required, either the price would have to double to cover the cost, or such parts would simply no longer be made.

I'm happy to take the responsibility in return for the freedom to buy light parts.

As for the "it might have killed in other circumstances"... a flat tyre might kill in certain circumstances. A tree might fall on your head.
Life is full of risks...

I'm no rookie in the WW world. Ciamillo is an example of a company that A. makes a very light product, B. makes it nigh-on bulletproof, and C. Would issue a free warranty instantly if a product had a failure as catastrophic as the one described.

Not sure why you're thinking this is a simple bolt failure. The OP has stated that the structural insert itself ripped out. This is unacceptable. There's lightweight and well designed, and then there's just lightweight. This crank appears to be either the latter or an anomaly. Either way, the company should make good...

Besides making for a slightly less dramatic photograph, this is absolutely akin to the Stronglight Pulsion failures a couple of years back. A part was made too light, and broke under pressure, causing the arm to separate from the crank. Stronglight made good on those cranks, and thanked their lucky stars that they didn't have someone's widow suing them. THM should do the same.

Finally, let me address your point about "taking responsibility". Manufacturers aren't asked to meet safety standards because the government is made up of a bunch of light bike-hating dicks. They need to meet standards because it's not just the individual riding the bike who's at risk, it's the child in the stroller he might hit if he goes out of control, it's the traffic jam that's created by the crash site and ambulance, it's the tax-payers footing his medical bill if he doesn't have insurance.

When we spend insane amounts of money on light parts, we're not just paying for the grams saved. We're paying for the extraordinary engineering that goes into making a safe and functional part that also happens to be incredibly light... if not, then we're really just getting ripped off, aren't we? I mean after all, any moron can make something that's just super light... you could shape a crankset out of styrofoam peanuts and superglue if you wanted to, and it would easily be the lightest on the market at around 20g complete. But should people pay you a thousand dollars for it?

I'm not suggesting that THM stuff is shoddy. I am suggesting that what passes for "great customer service" in this thread is absolutely not. They should be ecstatic that the OP is alive and uninjured, and express mailing him a new crankset...

[xnavalav8r]

Considering THM hasn't even received the crankset back yet, it's a bit early to start bashing them. I'm tickled pink that they are willing to work with me... especially considering the piss-poor customer service I've received from some larger mainstream brands. Perhaps THM will discover that I did something incorrect in my maintenance to cause this failure. I don't think I did, but I'm willing to give them the chance to rule out all possibilities. Perhaps they'll decide it was a flaw in their manufacturing or materials and issue me a free replacement. Perhaps they'll be stumped and offer me a discounted replacement or a repair. I don't know. My point is that they were understanding, flexible, and willing to work with me. To me, regardless of the ultimate outcome, that is excellent customer service.

[Gearjunkie]

Umm, I have no personal experience whatsoever with Clav's (so can't really comment), but isn't this a well known issue with them?

[Starter]

Considering THM hasn't even received the crankset back yet, it's a bit early to start bashing them. I'm tickled pink that they are willing to work with me... especially considering the piss-poor customer service I've received from some larger mainstream brands. Perhaps THM will discover that I did something incorrect in my maintenance to cause this failure. I don't think I did, but I'm willing to give them the chance to rule out all possibilities. Perhaps they'll decide it was a flaw in their manufacturing or materials and issue me a free replacement. Perhaps they'll be stumped and offer me a discounted replacement or a repair. I don't know. My point is that they were understanding, flexible, and willing to work with me. To me, regardless of the ultimate outcome, that is excellent customer service.

You're tickled pink that after a catastrophic failure on a thousand dollar crankset, the manufacturer is "willing to work with you"?

How bad, exactly, was the customer service from the larger mainstream brand after it was brought to their attention that one of their parts broke? Did they punch you in the face?

I agree that it's too early to bash THM. According to you, they haven't said much besides expressing a desire to inspect the crankset... and that's perfectly fine- no need for them to admit fault before all the facts are in. However, if it is determined that the failure is due to a design or manufacturing flaw (as it seems to be, based on what you've described), then they need to give you a free replacement- not a "discounted repair or replacement"...

You're the consumer. Without your money, these companies don't exist. Stand up for yourself and demand good customer service. The fact that they are willing to work with you should be a given, not some favor handed down from on-high. And the "ultimate outcome" not only pertains to whether customer service is excellent or not- it defines it. If all you get are promises and kind words, yet end up with no solutions, that will not be excellent customer service.

I don't mean to come off as harsh- it's just that if more people would be of the attitude that their dollar is worth good products and good customer service, maybe you wouldn't have had the bad customer service experiences you describe. This attitude of extreme gratitude just because they didn't hang up on you only serves to encourage poor customer service. I'm not saying you should be a dick- on the contrary, be friendly and polite. But remember, you are asking them to stand behind their expensive, high-end product... and that is not a wildly unreasonable thing to ask.

You have already fulfilled your portion of the "contract". You've forked over a mountain of your hard-earned cash. They are the ones that need to make you happy. You hold sway here, not them.