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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:45 pm
Posts: 3337
Location: Natovi Landing
madcow wrote:

Shops cannot exist to only service products and handle warranties on items they never sold.


Disagree - they absolutely can. Why? because it's a service for which people are willing to pay. how many shops we'd have is another question ...

what you say can't exist is all around us with many other sectors ... car mechanics anyone?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:37 am 
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Well the link is down now.. I got in yesterday..hope it still goes through


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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:37 am 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:18 am 
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Location: A bigger rock in the Pacific (AUS)
sawyer wrote:
madcow wrote:

Shops cannot exist to only service products and handle warranties on items they never sold.


Disagree - they absolutely can. Why? because it's a service for which people are willing to pay. how many shops we'd have is another question ...


It's not viable, it would dramatically decrease the urban saturation of bike shops, and make bike shops in non-urban situations practically unfeasible. Bike shops, sure, they can pay shop staff sallaries out of servicing costs, but the big overheads - shop rental, marketing, utilities costs and all of that could not be supported on a service only basis. Support your shops.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:47 am 
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Location: London, UK
Buy direct and you may have a warranty.

BUT - it is likely to be the bare minimum legally required. The consumer will be liable for all costs associated with the warranty like carriage to and from the manufacturer, labour to remove & refit the parts. And you can bet your arse that it the shop will not stretch the rules for you as they have no incentive to do so. You didn't buy it from a shop, because you wanted to bypass the retailer to save a few quid. The chances of you remembering their help when your next purchase comes along are slim at best.
Many premium brands are id'ing their production, so that they can track where they sent said part and whether it was intended for resale or manufacturer use. That is their right. Specialized & Trek don't undermine LBS's by doing this and they could take advantage of prices that PF can only dream of. Why? Because every dealer would drop them like a stone.
I will not stock certain brands for that very reason. Why should I invest in stock that I am unlikely to make anything on, because people only come to look and ask questions about it before going on line to save 10%?
That's why WW shops are few and far between. At this rate they'll be gone forever.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:37 pm 
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Location: Mallorca, Spain
I get the sense that a number of the posters here defend the rights of the manufacturers to limit "grey" imports as, quite rightly, the bike shops/retailers do need to be protected and supported to sustain their business model, and hence fix my expensive bike each time I do something stupid.

However, I believe there is an argument to prevent consumers being ripped off... retailers, wholesalers and even manufacturers charge the prices they do because they can, and are happy to gouge consumers in markets which have higher incomes and more disposable income..there was a test case 4 or 5 years ago in the UK where a major retailer wanted to import Levis jeans from the far East as they could offer them half or less of the UK rrp, much to Levis dislike, and Im pretty sure that there was some subsequent EU "guidelines" to ensure retailers were forbidden from selling below RRP in similar circumstances....

"Group Buys" like the Pedal Force at least can serve to keep the standard supply chain honest and efficient.

But having said that, go out and support your LBS!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:22 am
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Location: Zion
If I buy a new wheel from the wrong outfit, I get no warranty? If it's factory new and indeed original, that's complete and utter BS.

If I pay too much for a factory new wheel, do I get a longer warranty? Of course not. If I buy from the wrong outfit, the warranty gets pulled?! One-sided warranty programs steam me (and I'm not even talking about the infamous fine print that exonerates the manufacturer from just about anything).

[My comments are not manufacturer-specific.]


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:54 pm 
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Johnny Rad wrote:
If I buy a new wheel from the wrong outfit, I get no warranty? If it's factory new and indeed original, that's complete and utter BS.

If I pay too much for a factory new wheel, do I get a longer warranty? Of course not. If I buy from the wrong outfit, the warranty gets pulled?! One-sided warranty programs steam me (and I'm not even talking about the infamous fine print that exonerates the manufacturer from just about anything).

[My comments are not manufacturer-specific.]
No not quite.
Your warranty is the responsibility of the outfit you bought it from (at least in th UK it is under the Sale of Goods Act).

This means that if there is a problem you have redress via that channel. If you choose to try your local stockist, he is under no obligation to you whatsoever. I've had numerous "customers" check out the latest bling in store and next time we see them they have said item on their bike. when you enquire where they ended up getting it, they utter the magic mantra "online, way cheaper". Only problem is that they rarely ever ask if you can do a better price. Price is important, I know. But there is value in paying more - if there is a problem 13 months on. Bought online - 12 months and that's it. Bought on the high st and that 13 months is 11 months. Because there is a positive rapport.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:40 pm 
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cyclemanpat wrote:
i hit the link and cant get any Group Buy for wheels to show up? It says "no products available'. Is the wheel group buy gone now??


Does anyone know if this group buy has been withdrawn?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:10 pm 
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Formerly known as PezTech
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Location: Phoenix Arizona
sawyer wrote:
madcow wrote:

Shops cannot exist to only service products and handle warranties on items they never sold.


Disagree - they absolutely can. Why? because it's a service for which people are willing to pay. how many shops we'd have is another question ...

what you say can't exist is all around us with many other sectors ...


car mechanics anyone?




You know of lots of Auto shops that don't sell parts AND labor???
Even for things like transmission / brakes / oil changes they are providing parts and labor. especially on non warranty things.

Even if that were not the case (and it is...) do you know many Auto shops that will let you bring in your own brake pads and rotors and will charge you $20 for the complete overhaul using your parts?

Or replace a car's transmission (if you can find the replacement transmission on ebay...) for $45 bucks?

Changing a tire (when you don't buy the tire from the shop) cost you $5 at what auto mechanic??



The dollars and volume involved in repair only are not enough to sustain a cycling business like they are for other industries...

Even in places like Holland and Asia where the pressures and volume are extremely viable and more main stream, service and supply is the norm.

In asia even the "mobile tire" guys that are in that culture carry parts and equipement and are not service only. Yet they are only trying to run a one man virtually no overhead opperation...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:10 pm 
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Skunk wrote:
The minimum advertising rule only applies to Pedal Force not consumers. They probably put that in their e-mail to cover their own ass.

I'm sorry if I violated some rule and if the Mods want to they can delete my post.


I just got an email from Pedal Force and they withdrew the wheelset group buy...thanks to people posting the prices! Thanks man


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:26 pm 
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Formerly known as PezTech
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Location: Phoenix Arizona
eh,

That sounds perfectly reasonable, kinda, erm sorta maybe.


Good to know that It wasn't pulled because they were doing something they shouldn't have been.


damn customers, telling others about a perfectly legit deal always ruines things... em... YEP.


:lol:

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Last edited by CharlesM on Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:34 pm 
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Since it has been pulled, what were the prices?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:19 am
Posts: 573
Location: nr Derby, UK
sawyer wrote:
madcow wrote:

Shops cannot exist to only service products and handle warranties on items they never sold.


Disagree - they absolutely can. Why? because it's a service for which people are willing to pay. how many shops we'd have is another question ...

what you say can't exist is all around us with many other sectors ... car mechanics anyone?


The difference is that modern cars are designed to be serviced ONLY by a qualified/equipped garage (which is a bit of a scam IMHO), where as older cars were to some extent user-serviceable in a straightforward manner. Bikes are very much easily user-serviceable unless you are a total muppet, so the servicing doesn't happen in the same way.
This is why I service all my own bikes and my 15 year-old BMW E30 touring myself :twisted:


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