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 Post subject: Feeding the black Sheep
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:02 pm 
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Location: Hamilton, Canada
I've got anger in my blood over a small article in this week's Velonews.
They are reviewing Johan Museuww's flax-carbon frame. They addressed his doping, and he now say that he is retired and "that is all behind him".
How convenient for Johan.
So this is the model for a pro cyclists? Dope to a fake a career, retire, then expect to make more money off their names? We'll just "put it all behind."?

Sorry, I didn't contribute to the Tyler Hamilton Foundation, the Lance Armstrong Foundation, the Landis defense fund, nor will I contribute to anything to do with Vinokourov's return, Basso's return, etc., etc. And I don't happen to think Pantani is the greatest climber of all time. I doubt I'll buy a Max Lelli frame, Ullrich, or a Eddy Mazzolini frame, or Elisa Basso designer breast implants.

I'm increasingly starting to blame the doping culture on cycling fans who lionize their heros, regardless of how they got successful. At this point, it's hard to understand why they didn't dope in the 90s-current.

Do you care if your designer frame has a doper's name on it? (Note I didn't use the term 'cheater', because it's increasingly obvious that a lot of riders were/are 'enhanced').

Should I start a new brand: PED cycles? Name the frames, EPO, HGH, etc.?

/rant


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:14 pm 
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You better get some sort of Patent on the names of frames EPO/HGH
:P I like that idea.
Some one may steal it!

I wonder how George Hincappie feels about his quest to win Paris Roubaix and I think he finished 2nd place to Johan once.

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 Post subject:
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:14 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:54 pm 
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isn't the Spin frame called EPO? :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:26 pm 
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Easy Doc, you gotta lot of hate there :cry:
Its where business meets sport sadly, and there's no holds barred in the world of commerce.
Agreed though, these people should not be able to trade off the name of a recognised and proven cheat.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:56 pm 
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Location: Manchester, UK
What about Merckx?

Better add him to your list - 1969 giro. Deny deny deny just like tyler, floyd etc :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:07 pm 
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I give up. I'll just get a Merckx with Michelin Virenique tires, FSA Landis brakes (stop in two shots), Ullrich groupset (heavier that DA), Pantani saddle (smooth), Riis bars (60% better!), and a mexican Rasmussen crankset.

It will look good with my Ben Johnson shoes and Marion Jones jersey.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:11 pm 
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DocRay wrote:
I give up.


Doc, I pretty much stopped caring about the pro level a few years back. I get far more enjoyment out of working with juniors, and riders I know are clean and competing for the actual JOY of competing.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:36 am 
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The whole issue isn't worth the print it incites. You tell me the person "you know for sure" has never doped or used performance enhancing drugs to win in the last 10 yrs. It's wrong, it's dumb & these guys shouldn't do it but money & fame are evil things that bring out the worst in people. People will always try to find an edge. We as humans will always be able to justify those things that we can convince ourselves are okay. People, Baseball players, cyclists will always cheat to win hugely prized events.

The thing that makes me mad is that everyone assumes the guy in second place was clean...not likely.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:17 am 
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Gregorio wrote:
I wonder how George Hincappie feels about his quest to win Paris Roubaix and I think he finished 2nd place to Johan once.

Hyde wrote:
The thing that makes me mad is that everyone assumes the guy in second place was clean...not likely.


bingo!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:43 pm 
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Hyde wrote:
The thing that makes me mad is that everyone assumes the guy in second place was clean...not likely.


We all know Basso and Ullrich were infamous #2s. Still #2 in my book.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:58 pm 
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Hyde wrote:
The whole issue isn't worth the print it incites. You tell me the person "you know for sure" has never doped or used performance enhancing drugs to win in the last 10 yrs.


I'd suggest Chris Boardman is an extremely likely candidate - 99%+ confident. Shame his branded bikes are a bit rubbish!

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 Post subject: whatever...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:05 am 
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Would you rather have a Merckx (named after an alleged doper) or a Giant (used by an alleged doper) ?

Personally I don't care about drugs in relation to the frame I ride. All this talk about drugs that is doing nothing but destroying our sport and defaming our heros.


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 Post subject: Re: whatever...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:43 am 
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seriousconsult wrote:
Would you rather have a Merckx (named after an alleged doper) or a Giant (used by an alleged doper) ?

Personally I don't care about drugs in relation to the frame I ride. All this talk about drugs that is doing nothing but destroying our sport and defaming our heros.


:idea: 100% Thank you, I hate feeling like the only one.


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 Post subject: Re: whatever...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:40 am 
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seriousconsult wrote:
All this talk about drugs that is doing nothing but destroying our sport and defaming our heros.


Heroes never look so good in reality as in myth, I guess.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:04 pm 
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The bike industry is far from blameless in pushing products of questionable moral value. They sell products such as suplements with the dream of taking a pill to enhance performence and thus set up the next generation for more doping. Its not just the riders, it our culture. We have a long history of making sport a cult of hero worship. I am not aware of any sports "hero" risking his life for another in our modern times. I'm not aware of any fighting for grand ideas or injustuce. With all due respect Doc, when you accepted them "heros" in the first place you set yourself up for disappointment. They are perfomers, and some great performers but not heros

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 Post subject:
Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:04 pm 


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