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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:46 pm 
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PezTech wrote:

Quote:
Personally I tend to believe in guys that run hot and cold. A great day then a horrible one.


Alexandre Vinokourov, Tour de France 2007...........


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Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:46 pm 


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:51 pm 
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Formerly known as PezTech
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OK, Crash not withstanding.... :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:38 pm 
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@ PEZ, maybe you'd prefer to bring the international rulebook and testing facility to the U.S. Because the cycling world would obviously get a much better and fairer result. :shock:
Because its like all the U.S. system is clean, Right........... :lol:
Don't get too high on your moral high horse Pez because most people that read this forum are pretty well educated and know where a great deal of the doping culture originates.
ie U.S. olympic athletics programmes

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:28 am 
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:laughat:
legs 11 wrote:
most people that read this forum are pretty well educated and know where a great deal of the doping culture originates.
ie U.S. olympic athletics programmes


Well now, I think there's plenty of blame to go around the globe. :thumbup:

  • The World Weightlifting Championships of 1954 featured the first unconfirmed attempt at doping. Testosterone injections by Soviet Athletes resulted in the Soviets winning the gold medal in most weight classes and breaking several world records.
  • In early 1960s Dr. John Ziegler (who was the US Team Coach in the 1954 Soviet-dominated World Weightlifting Championships) administered his weightlifters Dianabol tablets and the US dominated the 1962 World Championships.
  • During the 1967 Tour de France, Tom Simpson collapsed during the ascent of the Mont Ventoux. Despite mouth-to-mouth resuscitation and the administration of oxygen, plus a helicopter airlift to a nearby hospital, Simpson died. Two tubes of amphetamines and a further empty tube were found in the rear pocket of his racing jersey.
  • A famous case of illicit drug use in a competition was Canadian Ben Johnson's victory in the 100 m at the 1988 Summer Olympics. He subsequently failed the drug test when stanozolol was found in his urine. He later admitted to using the steroid as well as Dianabol, Cypionate, Furazabol, and human growth hormone amongst other things. Johnson was stripped of his gold medal as well as recognition of what had been a world-record performance. Carl Lewis was then promoted one place to take the Olympic gold title. Lewis had also run under the current world record time and was therefore recognized as the new record holder.
  • In the 1970s and 1980s, many athletes from a variety of sports (including swimming, track & field, & weightlifting) in Eastern bloc nations were suspected to be augmenting their ability with some kind of pharmacological help. After the fall of communism in Eastern Europe and the reunification of Germany, documents surfaced proving that the East German sport establishment had conducted systematic doping of virtually all of its world-class athletes, under a program known as State Plan 14.25.[2]
  • In 1998 the entire Festina team were excluded from the Tour de France following the discovery of a team car containing large amounts of various performance-enhancing drugs. The team director later admitted that some of the cyclists were routinely given banned substances. Six other teams pulled out in protest including Dutch team TVM who left the tour still being questioned by the police. The Festina scandal overshadowed cyclist Marco Pantani's tour win, but he himself later failed a test. More recently David Millar, the 2003 World-Time Trial Champion, admitted using EPO, and was stripped of his title and suspended for two years. Still later, Roberto Heras was stripped of his victory in the 2005 Vuelta a España and suspended for two years after testing positive for EPO.
  • Six members of the Finnish cross country skiing team (four men and two women) were disqualifed for taking hemohes, a blood plasma expander, at the FIS Nordic World Ski Championships 2001 in Lahti, Finland. These six skiers became known as the Lahti six.
  • At the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, Utah, the SoHo trio (named for the Nordic skiing venue where they competed, Soldier Hollow) consisting of Johann Mühlegg of Spain, Olga Danilova, and Larisa Lazutina (both of Russia) were caught during routine doping tests. All forfeited Olympic medals.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:43 am 
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DC41 wrote:
Well now, I think there's plenty of blame to go around the globe. :thumbup:

Are you serious with that list?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:16 am 
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legs 11 wrote:
@ PEZ, maybe you'd prefer to bring the international rulebook and testing facility to the U.S. Because the cycling world would obviously get a much better and fairer result. :shock:
Because its like all the U.S. system is clean, Right........... :lol:
Don't get too high on your moral high horse Pez because most people that read this forum are pretty well educated and know where a great deal of the doping culture originates.
ie U.S. olympic athletics programmes


All I have to say to you is this:

1) East German "female" swimmers.
2) The USSR's atheltics teams in general, all sports, from 1950 to 1988 or so.
3) The Chinese domination and then mysterious fading into nothing in Track (running) particularly in the 1500m, 5000m and 10,000m in the early 90s.
4) Jarmila Kratochvílová. Women's 800m WR that has stood for 24 years. Chemically a man.

If you think doping culture originated in the US, perhaps you should take a look at the Olympic records of your European neighbors. And pull your head out of your @ss.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:26 am 
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RollinOn27s wrote:
legs 11 wrote:
@ PEZ, maybe you'd prefer to bring the international rulebook and testing facility to the U.S. Because the cycling world would obviously get a much better and fairer result. :shock:
Because its like all the U.S. system is clean, Right........... :lol:
Don't get too high on your moral high horse Pez because most people that read this forum are pretty well educated and know where a great deal of the doping culture originates.
ie U.S. olympic athletics programmes


All I have to say to you is this:

1) East German "female" swimmers.
2) The USSR's atheltics teams in general, all sports, from 1950 to 1988 or so.
3) The Chinese domination and then mysterious fading into nothing in Track (running) particularly in the 1500m, 5000m and 10,000m in the early 90s.
4) Jarmila Kratochvílová. Women's 800m WR that has stood for 24 years. Chemically a man.

If you think doping culture originated in the US, perhaps you should take a look at the Olympic records of your European neighbors. And pull your head out of your @ss.

:goodpost:

Add to that the Chinese female mountain bikers that have "burst" onto the scene at the World Championships in the last 2 years.

Can't wait to see how the "home team" cleans up at the Olympics next year. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:09 am 
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OJ wrote:
Are you serious with that list?


Only as an example of the multi-national nature of the problem, its antecedents, and perpetrators, clowns, and buffoons. It no way was it intended as a comprehensive list.

In fact, if you Google some of the phrases you'll very easily find the source! :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:01 pm 
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DC41 wrote:
OJ wrote:
Are you serious with that list?


Only as an example of the multi-national nature of the problem, its antecedents, and perpetrators, clowns, and buffoons. It no way was it intended as a comprehensive list.

In fact, if you Google some of the phrases you'll very easily find the source! :wink:

Only mistakes on your list are those "first" cases from 50's. Since IAAF recognized the problem decades earlier and steroids were used to medicate POW's in second world war and many soldiers were given amphetamines you can be sure that at least cyclists were high on various drugs already in 40's...pro track riders in states were definitely no exceptions.

This latest bust of over 50 UG labs in US is pretty good indicator of the situation as well IMO. I don't know did you see the pictures of thousands of vials and tens or even hundreads of thousands of pills in one lab? Add legal distribution of doping products to this (anti-aging private practices). Doping culture is alive and very well in US and in North America in general and only very naive can try and deny this. East-Germany is dead, Soviet Union is dead, glorious days of Finnish cross country skiing are behind but US sports are going strong and US people and media are smart enough to cast stones at their own unlike europeans.

EDIT: Oh yeah...Mayo is a doper, Landis is a doper, Sinkewitz is a doper (and most likely lying doper), Basso is a doper...etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:20 pm 
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See the size of the lineman on the US Football teams lately? 320 pounds is considered average. I remember about 30 years ago the average lineman was about 275. This when technically the average height in the US is declining for the first time. One of the players on my sons High School football team was asking if any of the other players wanted steroids. My sons team is known for it's small lineman. Some of the other kids on the other schools are huge.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:25 pm 
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geraldatwork wrote:
See the size of the lineman on the US Football teams lately? 320 pounds is considered average. I remember about 30 years ago the average lineman was about 275. This when technically the average height in the US is declining for the first time. One of the players on my sons High School football team was asking if any of the other players wanted steroids. My sons team is known for it's small lineman. Some of the other kids on the other schools are huge.

Must be fastfood?

I wouldn't moralize East-Germanys program while the kids in local high school are "juicing".

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:46 pm 
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A friend of mine is 6'5", 300+, plays D1 football. O-line. Used to pick me up and throw me back and forth with another guy on the track team to warm up for the discus and/or shot.

His parents are each over 6'2", dad is 270+. All genetics.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:08 pm 
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RollinOn27s wrote:
A friend of mine is 6'5", 300+, plays D1 football. O-line. Used to pick me up and throw me back and forth with another guy on the track team to warm up for the discus and/or shot.

His parents are each over 6'2", dad is 270+. All genetics.

So he is 270 lbs (like his father) as his base plus 30 pounds due to steroids to make 300+ so he can be competitive in D1 football.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:46 pm 
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OJ wrote:
you can be sure that at least cyclists were high on various drugs already in 40's...pro track riders in states were definitely no exceptions.


In Grand Tours the team leaders used to send their mates to check their rival's eyes to see if they used any "bomb" in the previous day.
If they were wearing dark glasses it meant yes.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:25 pm 
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geraldatwork wrote:
RollinOn27s wrote:
A friend of mine is 6'5", 300+, plays D1 football. O-line. Used to pick me up and throw me back and forth with another guy on the track team to warm up for the discus and/or shot.

His parents are each over 6'2", dad is 270+. All genetics.

So he is 270 lbs (like his father) as his base plus 30 pounds due to steroids to make 300+ so he can be competitive in D1 football.


That, or he's been that size since he was a freshman in high school?

Apparently you don't know much about genetics. Plenty of people are bigger than their parents.

I have two other friends, brothers, 6'0". Parents both 5'8".


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Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:25 pm 


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