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2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=143186
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Author:  Rondje [ Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

Antoine wrote:
Rondje wrote:
Think it's safe to say we won't see Dumoulin fighting Froome this year. With only 30 TT km's he might look elsewhere. It looks like the ASO keeps their faith in Bardet, Pinot and Barguil while they are never going to beat Froome....

Though I don't recall ASO acknowledging they intentionally favour them by reducing kms of TTs, it looks that they do and it's really unfair for guys like T.Martin, Dowset, ...
So we are never going to see Dumoulin at the tour as Gaudu could become quite soon the best french climber and he's 5 years younger than Barguil and 6 than Dumoulin.
Unlike Latour make big progresses, he's the only french who can climb and tt as well.
From inner ring :
image


Of course the ASO won't say it like that, but I can't think of another reason to lower the TT km's in recent years. They know it's Froome's strong point and it's the weakest point of the French GC riders.
Can't blame them for doing so, I think France is in dire need of a winner, but they won't beat Froome that way. With the current route they have to get lucky that Froome either get caught by surprise on echelons or some kind of chaotic racing in the first week. Because I doubt they can gain enough (if they even can gain) in the mountains to stay ahead of Froome in the TT.

Author:  Weenie [ Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.


Author:  MattSoutherden [ Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

They could put in a pump track, a half-pipe, and some gnarly doubles, that might result in Froome crashing-out. On the other hand, Froome seems more likely to prepare for it in a professional manner than the others would.

Author:  ave [ Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

UpFromOne wrote:
Wish they'd dump all TTTs except for Worlds.


Once there was some kind of limit on how much time you can lose in a TTT. I'd limit it to 10seconds/placing at the most. Better eliminate them alltogether. Yeah, sure, nice pictures, but it kills the race.

Author:  Rondje [ Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

MattSoutherden wrote:
They could put in a pump track, a half-pipe, and some gnarly doubles, that might result in Froome crashing-out. On the other hand, Froome seems more likely to prepare for it in a professional manner than the others would.


My thoughts exactly. I'm not a fan of Froome, but I definitely respect his professionalism. His first year or cobbles learned him he had to adept, so he learned and came well prepared the second time. Something I have yet to see from Bardet, He got support in the team, but he looks more fragile then Froome.
Froome came in to the peloton as one of the least skilled riders but learns new stuff every year.

Author:  tymon_tm [ Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

+1

at first Froome seemed like a complete dilettante, a tool even, but he evolves and he's clearly becoming more and more aware of his capabilities and it looks as if he's actually having fun on the bike. he must see by himself how big of an advantage he has over his rivals, not just team-wise, but generally speaking - if he's in an optimal shape, there's no one able to keep up with his pace. and that self awareness makes him more creative but in a really good, productive way. career wise he's also at the spot where he doesn't "have to". to be honest there's nothing more he can achieve other than adding another GTs to his list (I admitt I don't even keep track of how many he's already won, and I bet most fans don't as well).

Author:  LouisN [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

IMHO, for entertainment and "action" purposes, the Tour should go the opposite way: put a few big mountain stages right at the beginning week. Keep the windy and rainy stages, the cobbles, for the third week.
Louis :)

Author:  AJS914 [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

Quote:
to be honest there's nothing more he can achieve other than adding another GTs to his list


I think that winning five Tour de Frances would be huge for him. It puts him on the same podium as Anquetil, Merckx, Hinault, and Indurain.

Author:  UpFromOne [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

LouisN wrote:
IMHO, for entertainment and "action" purposes, the Tour should go the opposite way: put a few big mountain stages right at the beginning week. Keep the windy and rainy stages, the cobbles, for the third week.
Louis :)


Interesting take on the stages. There's really no limit to what ASO could come up with. Just because flat stages have always been in the first week doesn't mean they must.

Author:  Leviathan [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

I think the top contenders should be made to juggle whilst descending.

Look, frankly the issue in recent years at the tour has been a lack of competition, at least in part due to Sky outspending (some will say out-doping, whatevs) the competition
Reducing rider numbers, and, god forbid, the UCI doing something like instigating a salary cap (or mandating a certain % of spend has to go to development teams), banning race radios and even power meters, would offer IMHO a better route to more competitive tours than messing around with the stage profiless.
Im hoping with this new French chap at the helm of the UCI there will be more aligment between the UCI and the race organizers but I wouldnt bet my chips on it.

But I like summit finishes. They are cool .

Author:  tymon_tm [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

banning race radios is probably the 2nd oldest WW postulate :D

as for SKY - there will always be a dominant team, no matter what shape it takes. altering the route a bit could open things up just a bit - it's a lot harder for a team to just sit back and power through a twisty rolling road than a wide open highway. same with stage lenght - a lot more serious moves are made when stages are shorter and 'punchier'. ASO can not undercut teams like SKY, but they sure as hell can make things harder for their "riding style".

Author:  Leviathan [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

Agree with all your points, but I guess my point was that many of the things to make the race more competitive perhaps lie in the hands of the UCI, not the ASO

Author:  CrankAddictsRich [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

Leviathan wrote:
Agree with all your points, but I guess my point was that many of the things to make the race more competitive perhaps lie in the hands of the UCI, not the ASO


ehhh... sort of. The ASO still holds the chips. If the UCI gets drastic and really alters things, the ASO can just pull out and decide to run the race and be Non-UCI. They've threatened to do it in the past. The fact that they are the biggest race and the only race that even some non-cycling fans watch or are aware of gives them that pull... additionally, the teams all build their schedule around the Tour and for many of them, the sponsor dollars are contingent on taking part in the Tour, so even if the ASO pulls out from the UCI, the best teams will still all be there... ASO has the control.

Author:  Rondje [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

Well this is interesting. On a Belgium website Thierry Gouvenou says the 65km stage will start in the cyclocross way. All riders lined up at the foot of the Peyresourde with the highest GC guys in the front row and the last one in the GC at the back.
source: http://www.dhnet.be/sports/cyclisme/thi ... ab3694e202

Not ideal for break away guys, but then again in a stage like this the breakaway rarely has a chance of succeeding.

Author:  maquisard [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

It's going to be very entertaining, you would hope that the Dauphine will feature a similarly short stage as a test to figure out any issues arising.

Author:  tymon_tm [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

Rondje wrote:
Well this is interesting. On a Belgium website Thierry Gouvenou says the 65km stage will start in the cyclocross way. All riders lined up at the foot of the Peyresourde with the highest GC guys in the front row and the last one in the GC at the back.
source: http://www.dhnet.be/sports/cyclisme/thi ... ab3694e202

Not ideal for break away guys, but then again in a stage like this the breakaway rarely has a chance of succeeding.


why not introduce cyclocross racing for one of the stages? maybe make a downhill stage as well :lol: :roll:

Author:  Weenie [ Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.


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