2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

[nemeseri]

And no, I meant no insult by that statement actually, but if you came into cycling that year or the year before you came into the sport at peak hype for Phinney.

Was it really "hype" though? By 2014, he had won numerous Would championships at the junior, U23 and elite level on the track. he won the U23 Paris-Roubaix race 2 times. He won the 2012 Giro ITT to take the pink jersey, @nd in the 2012 ITT WC behind Tony Martin. To me, hype is when someone is expected to do something but really hasn't doe it yet. He was, IMO, already into a successful career, which was derailed by a tragic accident.

Dude I'm with you. I have no idea why should anybody hate young(ish) US riders just because they have hipster mustaches. Times change and I think the sport benefits from the younger riders and make the sport more marketable for younger generations. What the hell is the problem with this? Sagan started out as a childish rider who had stupid issues with podium girls, right?

@KWalker: who is your current favorite rider from the pro peloton now? Who do you root for?

[mattr]

Was it really "hype" though?

Pretty much. Every country has this every few years. The next Merckx, the next Nys, the next Boardman, the next Fignon. And so on.
Unfortunately racing changes, more specialisation, more potential winners. So "the next" very rarely pans out as the media would like.
Just see what happens with Wout Van Aert and Mathieu Van Der Poel over the next 3-5 years. They are being touted as "the next" at the moment.

[tymon_tm]

And no, I meant no insult by that statement actually, but if you came into cycling that year or the year before you came into the sport at peak hype for Phinney.

Was it really "hype" though? By 2014, he had won numerous Would championships at the junior, U23 and elite level on the track. he won the U23 Paris-Roubaix race 2 times. He won the 2012 Giro ITT to take the pink jersey, @nd in the 2012 ITT WC behind Tony Martin. To me, hype is when someone is expected to do something but really hasn't doe it yet. He was, IMO, already into a successful career, which was derailed by a tragic accident.

Dude I'm with you. I have no idea why should anybody hate young(ish) US riders just because they have hipster mustaches. Times change and I think the sport benefits from the younger riders and make the sport more marketable for younger generations. What the hell is the problem with this? Sagan started out as a childish rider who had stupid issues with podium girls, right?

this is one way to look at it and yes - the younger generation (I'm in my 30s now) is just different, just like we were to our parents' generation 10-15 years ago, and like our parents to theirs, and so on. it's best not to loop yourself in endless criticism, just because you don't like it or feel it - it's out of your hands anyway think of it as fashion - what can you do about skinny jeans and pompadour haircut? nothing, just wear other things and cut your hair differently, but when you start to point out fingers at everyone copying that particular style, you just become a grouchy old man. in my language we call such people "mushrooms". all those - mostly old - grumpy people, unwilling to accept the simple fact that the times change and so do certain customs and behaviors, depreciating every single change or novelty - mostly just because. they're kinda misfited to the times they live in, and I bet feeling strange not recognizing the world anymore.

[nathanong87]

I can't count the number of times a USA pro has been named as the future face of USA cycling. From van Garderen, to Phinney, to Dombrowski, to Talansky, to Ben King. All were suppose to be the up and coming USA pro that would be successful in Europe. But all have been underwhelming imo. I don't see any of the newer guys doing much better at this point. Hope I'm wrong.

in mcnulty and costa we trust.

Think I pointed this out a while ago on a Katyusha rider's bike, but seems a lot of mavic sponsored pros run the CCU's on the rear for stiffness and power transfer and C40T on the front for the updated aero.

i'm not familiar with mavic equipment, but howes looks like he's doing the opposite of SVM and Wippert?

[KWalker]

And no, I meant no insult by that statement actually, but if you came into cycling that year or the year before you came into the sport at peak hype for Phinney.

Was it really "hype" though? By 2014, he had won numerous Would championships at the junior, U23 and elite level on the track. he won the U23 Paris-Roubaix race 2 times. He won the 2012 Giro ITT to take the pink jersey, @nd in the 2012 ITT WC behind Tony Martin. To me, hype is when someone is expected to do something but really hasn't doe it yet. He was, IMO, already into a successful career, which was derailed by a tragic accident.

Yah I think he was overhyped. He was good, don't get me wrong. But at the pro level what you did as a U23 is a cool story bro, but not really relevant anymore. It's a different level and different races completely. That 2012 worlds was a good result, but almost no one was on form/there either. And, as your post shows, the results list is pretty damn short at the WT level for there to be so many VN stories about him taking a shit or swapping tires or other mundane crap. When he won Dubai Tour and the ToC stage (not a WT race at the time) I think the hype hit a crescendo.

Compare him to a youngster named Michel Kwiatkowski, who is the same age and didn't have three years of constant media coverage. Let's check out his 2014 season:
-World Champ
-1st Strade Bianchi, 2 monument podiums, and 2nd at Tour of Basque country.

That's leaving out 80% of his other top 10s. His palamares for that season alone shits on Phinney's entire career.

And Phinney isn't doing anything for marketing the sport towards a younger generation. It's no secret that racing in the U.S. is on a huge decline, oddly so in states such as NY and CA where "classic" races are lucky to get over 30 starters now. That's not entirely related to any specific riders, but they definitely are not bringing people to the sport necessarily.

I guess it's sorta like how we all got tired of Andy Schleck excuse articles. After a while you want to read something different and maybe of substance and sometimes reading articles in VN from the same cadre of Colorado based twenty somethings gets repetitive.

[bilwit]

It's always the same argument about the same US riders these days--yes, on a personal level, what they're doing/have done are things we could only dream of. On a professional/fan-of-the-sport level, they are all a bit disappointing (TJVG never living up to his Grand Tour contendor billing and Phinney never living up to his once-promising ITT results). Good riders, just will always be second/third class in the WT.

The thing with TJVG is that he would be an excellent lieutenant/domestique for Porte if he went all in for him but it seems like he has it in his head that he needs to be working for himself alone in GTs. BMC essentially brought only two climbers to help Porte out which is a shame.. a dedicated domestique pairing of Dennis and TJVG would have been formidable.

[spud]

^^agreed. First, TVG "didn't see" his team leader Evans flatting at the top of the mountain. Right - 20 foot wide road, maybe 15 other people around, all going about 15 mph, and you didn't see your team captain standing on the side of the road. Then, this past Giro - a couple dismal performances, then he wins one stage out of a breakaway and it's like he's reset the clock and he's ready to be a grand tour leader. Well, past few years would indicate otherwise.

[spud]

also, Cardozo got popped for EPO today. I sincerely hope he didn't attend a training camp with Cantador during the period of use...

[glepore]

His being overhyped was because of his genetics as much as his results. Were it not for the injury, I'd have simply thrown the towel in at this point. I'd kinda like to see him just finish the tdf, which is all I think we can expect. And yeah, he may be on the team just to generate media exposure, Vaughters hasn't made a secret of the fact that he's trolling for a sponsor.

I hear you about VN. At least their podcasts are better than listening to the Trainer Road guys prattling on constantly about their own adventures.

[53x12]

also, Cardozo got popped for EPO today. I sincerely hope he didn't attend a training camp with Cantador during the period of use...

Gotta keep all of those 90s era GC riders away from the youngins so that they don't have a negative influence on them and the sport.

[ultyguy]

UCI election time, time to feed a faceless domestique to the anti-doping hordes so they think we're actually doing something.


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[maquisard]

Indeed, one of the great paradoxes of the last few years of dope testing is that absolutely no top tier riders have tested positive, only domestiques and mostly conti/pro-conti level.

Either the sport has dramatically cleaned up and the only guys doping now are the amateurs and lower level pros, or doping has moved on to something different. I think the latter is much more likely.

[maquisard]

And on a totally unrelated matter...

#TENDERLOINS



http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/lates ... ion-337489

[53x12]

Either the sport has dramatically cleaned up and the only guys doping now are the amateurs and lower level pros, or doping has moved on to something different. I think the latter is much more likely.

[flying]

Indeed, one of the great paradoxes of the last few years of dope testing is that absolutely no top tier riders have tested positive, only domestiques and mostly conti/pro-conti level.

Either the sport has dramatically cleaned up and the only guys doping now are the amateurs and lower level pros, or doping has moved on to something different. I think the latter is much more likely.

True
As before if it is not on the ban list it is not illegal.
So ...........like the probenicid Pedro Delgado got popped for while leading 88 TDF which he won....

On the Olympic ban list as illegal but not the UCI list so no foul
Even though Probenicid has one use only & that is to mask steroids from the urine

Disclaimer: drug use has never lessened the greatness of this sport/spectacle for me.
I have always assumed/accepted it is there... part & parcel of cycling stage races