2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

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Rob81
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by Rob81

Multebear wrote:Since all the other multiple TdF winners were doped, and he probably isn't, then why shouldn't he be the best ever.


His fall is going to be epic as it was his "change" before/after September 2011. When the "system" will not need him or $ Sky as it was for LA.
But I agree with your sentence, except the underlined bit (it's a trivial bit ... :D )

petepeterson
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by petepeterson

Big difference between not having TUEs and out of competition use.

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bilwit
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by bilwit

Multebear wrote:
wingguy wrote:You must think he is the best bike rider ever! :wink:


At least the best grand tour rider ever. Since all the other multiple TdF winners were doped, and he probably isn't, then why shouldn't he be the best ever.


i almost laughed out loud

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

Multebear wrote:Since all the other multiple TdF winners were doped, and he never tested positive, then why shouldn't he be the best ever.


here, fixed :wink:
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

AJS914
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by AJS914

I hold nothing against Froome. He's the best of the current generation. If he's doping or skirting the edge of what is legal then all the top riders are doing it. They are almost all turning in the same performances.

On the NBC coverage Greg Lemond accused Froome of motor doping on the 2014 Ventoux.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB_f1L86vIM&t=181s

The attack does look like an EPO era attack.

bilwit
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by bilwit

AJS914 wrote:I hold nothing against Froome. He's the best of the current generation. If he's doping or skirting the edge of what is legal then all the top riders are doing it. They are almost all turning in the same performances.

On the NBC coverage Greg Lemond accused Froome of motor doping on the 2014 Ventoux.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB_f1L86vIM&t=181s

The attack does look like an EPO era attack.


They PROBABLY do all microdose. The instant Froome transformation from nobody to top grand tour contender in 2011 and those alien attacks in 2013-2014 is pretty questionable to me but he's innocent until proven guilty as far as I'm concerned.

They MOST CERTAINLY do other "legal" things like nebulizers before a race and salbutamol in the team car. As if Contador, Wiggins, Froome, Cav, the Yates brothers, et all. ALL have asthma? Yeah, right. They do it to clear their lungs/have bigger lung capacity. The same reason Froome took Prednisolone orally. Much more effective than Triamcinolone when you can take daily doses on race days as opposed to a one shot days before the event.

What's most annoying is that Froome has completely escaped criticism for his own TUEs and no one holds him accountable, even when they ask him about TUEs it's always in reference to Wiggins when all the research papers I've seen that conclude corticosteroid can be used as PED cite specifically Prednisolone, which is what Froome used. The cycling media made such a hoopla about the Wiggins jiffy bag when it was taken after the 2011 Dauphine ENDED (after he secured GC with the TT) and he went on to crash out of the Tour that year anyway so it didn't exactly amount to anything did it--there is also a spin which suggests Triamcinolone was in the bag but of course they never mention that he was tested a week later at the Nationals where he won the road race so if there were any irregularities it would have been flagged there. Complete non-story to stir up hysteria when they should have been objectively researching if TUE use at Sky is systematic and the legitimacy of how they were approved by the required third party doctors.
Last edited by bilwit on Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

petepeterson
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by petepeterson

Always get a kick out of the rolling clock of cycling fans wanting to assume the 'current generation' isn't cheating. The only thing I hold against Froome is how bad he looks riding a bike.

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Rob81
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by Rob81

The problem with Froome vs others is not doping per se, but of course IF there is also motor doping then it implies there was a huge cover up from UCI & co.
The main issue is the fact that others pro (doped? probably yes it's a hard demanding pro sport...) at this level has been competitive cyclists for years, since they were kids in most cases while he just come out from nowhere and almost without a contract (2011) to become the BEST one. He was losing his contract and the "best" and "most advanced"* team in cycling didn't notice his potential? Hard to believe.
Quote "He just lost the fat" & "He was sick". Fat and sick for years until August/September 2011? Very hard to believe.

* in their fine narrative

KB
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by KB

AJS914 wrote: On the NBC coverage Greg Lemond accused Froome of motor doping on the 2014 Ventoux.

I wouldn't take anything seriously coming from Lemond, especially after his bungling and embarrassing efforts on Eurosport. He's even worse than Carlton Kirby in my opinion.

CrankAddictsRich
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by CrankAddictsRich

AJS914 wrote:I hold nothing against Froome. He's the best of the current generation. If he's doping or skirting the edge of what is legal then all the top riders are doing it. They are almost all turning in the same performances.

On the NBC coverage Greg Lemond accused Froome of motor doping on the 2014 Ventoux.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB_f1L86vIM&t=181s

The attack does look like an EPO era attack.


I think that was 2013 Ventoux.... Froome crashed out on Stage 4? in 2014.

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Miller
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by Miller

No-one is motor doping, that's a false trail. Motor doping is just nonsense.

AJS914
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by AJS914

Certainly not now that they are checking. It's not provable but I'd bet that some pro somewhere motor doped in the past.

I think that was 2013 Ventoux


You are right, 2013.

I wouldn't take anything seriously coming from Lemond, especially after his bungling and embarrassing efforts on Eurosport. He's even worse than Carlton Kirby in my opinion.


Lemond definitely keeps winning the cranky old man of the year award. His crusade against Armstrong cost him his business with Trek and millions of dollars.

One of my cycling buddies was doing a course of prednisone (for a legit illness). It just so happened that he was training for a week long cycling trip to Italy. He said the prednisone was definitely performance enhancing. He said that losing some extra pounds was super easy on prednisone and he felt like he could ride faster and farther.

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Rob81
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by Rob81

Motor Doping seems quite high in his priorities: https://cyclingtips.com/2017/07/intervi ... en-motors/
And the fact they didn't weight wheels with a poor excuse is quite lame.

Multebear
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by Multebear

Rob81 wrote:
Multebear wrote:Since all the other multiple TdF winners were doped, and he probably isn't, then why shouldn't he be the best ever.


His fall is going to be epic as it was his "change" before/after September 2011. When the "system" will not need him or $ Sky as it was for LA.
But I agree with your sentence, except the underlined bit (it's a trivial bit ... :D )


Yes, his fall will be epic, if he falls. But when considering how hard he criticized Wiggens after Wiggins TUE incident, and how he (at first) refused to back Brailsford like all the other riders on the team, it would be very weird, if he potentially would test positive at some point. His behavior just doesn't point in that direction. He didn't have to criticize Wiggins that hard, and he didn't have to refuse to back Brailsford. He could just have hid in the crowd and back Brailsford like the other riders did.

That said, I know it's naive to think the top contenders aren't doping. But why don't they get caught then? Only Cardoso tested positive before the TdF, and no one since. And Cardoso isn't even GC material.

mike
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by mike

will the vuelta be more interesting than the tdf this year? no tom dumoulin though. perhaps nibali can pull it off? there is a long individual tt though.

by Weenie


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