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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:56 am 
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new uci rules 01.01.2018:

http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/Rulesandregulation/18/20/62/Colonnededroite-changementsau01.01.2018-Majdu01.10.2017-E_English.pdf

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:34 pm 
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oh boy, just when I was starting to like the guy...

[url]
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lappart ... n-cycling/
[/url]

it's nice and all, but my first and really only question is - where do we draw the line? because there's a great number of people in cycling branded or at least heavily talked about as dopers. there are managers and docs with shady past, riders - like Valverde or Bertie - who did their time and came back, there are Virenques, Vaughterses and Millars who either act like they didn't and/or point fingers at everyone else who - according to them - does dope. finally there are "legends", like Indurain or Merckx, who "never tested positive" - should they remain on the pantheon?

why the f**k can't the UCI or whatever fat guys focus on the present, perhaps create rules that wouldn't allow teams like Astana or Bardani collect doping bans one after another and still participate in races like it's riders' "individual problem". people with shady agenda have a place in pro cycling mostly because it's still relatively easy to cheat, and even if a rider gets caught - the are no repercussions for the staff, the managers, the docs - those who make the merry-go-round spin. in this play, riders are just disposable tools, yet they take all the blame. IMHO everyone who shouts "get rid of dopers and exdopers" doesn't really have clean cycling in mind - only his image and public perception. the fact that it's business as usual down in the teams gets nicely covered by a catchy slogan and a handful of empty threats.

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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:34 pm 


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:46 pm 
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I miss steve tilford and his blog too. Unlike PG the guy clearly wasn't trying to make a living out of his writing on the sport.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:17 pm 
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tymon_tm wrote:
finally there are "legends", like Indurain or Merckx, who "never tested positive" - should they remain on the pantheon?


Merckx did test positive, multiple times. Indurain though seems to have gotten away with it.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:25 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:12 pm 
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I feel so sad for the Sir. It really must have been hell. Taking drugs to shed weight under the guise of allergies or some nonsense. Thank goodness for money and good doctors (read TUE) and lost laptops.

http://www.velonews.com/2017/11/news/wiggins-anti-doping-probe-living-hell_452092


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:58 pm 
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sfo423 wrote:
I feel so sad for the Sir. It really must have been hell. Taking drugs to shed weight under the guise of allergies or some nonsense. Thank goodness for money and good doctors (read TUE) and lost laptops.

http://www.velonews.com/2017/11/news/wiggins-anti-doping-probe-living-hell_452092


The investigation had little to do with the TUEs you reference, which shows that you are as uninformed as all these other smear campaign media drones. The TUEs were not part of the investigation because--all ethics aside--they were legally prescribed and taken. There was nothing to investigate. The UKAD investigation that was concluded was for the "jiffy bag" taken after the last stage of the 2011 Dauphine. I must emphasize the word after, because it was administered after he already won the stage and overall. The Daily Mail put this on a headline and implied that Triamcinolone was taken, however this doesn't make any sense because if they were trying to cheat, they wouldn't take it AFTER the race already ended and, moreover, he participated (and won) the 2011 National Road Race a week later, so any PED would have been flagged there if there was any (this is a moot point anyway since he crashed out of the 2011 Tour).

What is shady is Sky's excuses for having no medical records and the laptop being stolen is pretty absurd, but the fact is that the freaking DAILY MAIL put out this story which led to a 14-month long UKAD investigation for an allegation that didn't even make sense. Wiggins would be right to pursue legal action against them for defamation. It was unsubstantiated from the beginning.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:19 am 
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petepeterson wrote:
I miss steve tilford and his blog too. Unlike PG the guy clearly wasn't trying to make a living out of his writing on the sport.

Because there's something wrong with writing books after a career in sport?


Cycling fans eh, decry pros for not speaking out and for being too vanilla. Lambaste them when they do. Screwed either way.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:01 am 
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bilwit wrote:
sfo423 wrote:
I feel so sad for the Sir. It really must have been hell. Taking drugs to shed weight under the guise of allergies or some nonsense. Thank goodness for money and good doctors (read TUE) and lost laptops.

http://www.velonews.com/2017/11/news/wiggins-anti-doping-probe-living-hell_452092


The TUEs were not part of the investigation because--all ethics aside--they were legally prescribed and taken.


That's the story. Ethics. Not some witch hunt over he said/she said. Prescribing a known drug that enhances performance because you say you have allergies is bs. Sure, legal. But he knows what he did.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:22 am 
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"But he knows what he did?"

Have 2 solid seasons worth of stage races that includes winning a TDF? I'd sign up for that :thumbup:

IMO the fact that you've so easily jumped to moral high ground shows you could take some time to further grasp the complexity of sport.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:39 am 
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bilwit wrote:
sfo423 wrote:
I feel so sad for the Sir. It really must have been hell. Taking drugs to shed weight under the guise of allergies or some nonsense. Thank goodness for money and good doctors (read TUE) and lost laptops.

http://www.velonews.com/2017/11/news/wiggins-anti-doping-probe-living-hell_452092


The investigation had little to do with the TUEs you reference, which shows that you are as uninformed as all these other smear campaign media drones. The TUEs were not part of the investigation because--all ethics aside--they were legally prescribed and taken. There was nothing to investigate. The UKAD investigation that was concluded was for the "jiffy bag" taken after the last stage of the 2011 Dauphine. I must emphasize the word after, because it was administered after he already won the stage and overall. The Daily Mail put this on a headline and implied that Triamcinolone was taken, however this doesn't make any sense because if they were trying to cheat, they wouldn't take it AFTER the race already ended and, moreover, he participated (and won) the 2011 National Road Race a week later, so any PED would have been flagged there if there was any (this is a moot point anyway since he crashed out of the 2011 Tour).

What is shady is Sky's excuses for having no medical records and the laptop being stolen is pretty absurd, but the fact is that the freaking DAILY MAIL put out this story which led to a 14-month long UKAD investigation for an allegation that didn't even make sense. Wiggins would be right to pursue legal action against them for defamation. It was unsubstantiated from the beginning.


The allegation would make sense If the contents of the jiffy were used on the final day, even after the stage, which would technically requires a TUE, or took place in a country in which this would be unlawful.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:05 am 
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Location: Netherlands
bilwit wrote:
What is shady is Sky's excuses for having no medical records and the laptop being stolen is pretty absurd, but the fact is that the freaking DAILY MAIL put out this story which led to a 14-month long UKAD investigation for an allegation that didn't even make sense. Wiggins would be right to pursue legal action against them for defamation. It was unsubstantiated from the beginning.


A bit of a contradiction here. You say a 14 month long investigation didn't make sense, while at the same you call Sky's excuses shady. It is more then shady that a very professional organisation like Sky "lost" a laptop and have erased medical records to hide their shady business. All these things exactly show why they where investigated and also why I don't believe they are innocent.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:32 pm 
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Tinea Pedis wrote:
Cycling fans eh, decry pros for not speaking out and for being too vanilla. Lambaste them when they do. Screwed either way.


it’s fine if he wants to write a book , in retirement he’s gotta monetize something to continue paying the bills. grab fondos and all. Dude has more media about him post retirement than he did while he was riding. His sarcastic tone seems a little too forced for my liking.

my personal issue with this particular PG case is if he was convinced when it happened , he should have spoken up as it happened.... It’s as if he got on youtube a week before his book and watched a few 7 year old clips to formulate his opinion on fabian. Like i’m all for pros callin out dudes as it happens, why not if the claims are warranted or based on evidence. Doesn’t stop riders from going to the news about holding onto cars or making racists comments or intentionally trying to crash each other. I think it’s the convenient timing of his book claims that gets people triggered.

i don’t doubt the existence of motor doping or whatever but fabian has won plenty of other races in dare i say , similar fashion, without any funky cadence or hand gesture analysis on them against the same dudes. Seems to correspond and cohere as a truth claim.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Sir Brad may be bitter about the whole affair, but pursuing legal action is going to prolong it for several more years. The jiffy bag was pretty damn suspicious, and having seen everyone's past cries of innocence, only to be followed by admissions, I don't believe that riders were 100% fully informed, nor did they want to be, about what they were taking. Hopefully the situation has moved on since then.


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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:39 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:07 pm 
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nathanong87 wrote:
Tinea Pedis wrote:
Cycling fans eh, decry pros for not speaking out and for being too vanilla. Lambaste them when they do. Screwed either way.


it’s fine if he wants to write a book , in retirement he’s gotta monetize something to continue paying the bills. grab fondos and all. Dude has more media about him post retirement than he did while he was riding. His sarcastic tone seems a little too forced for my liking.

my personal issue with this particular PG case is if he was convinced when it happened , he should have spoken up as it happened.... It’s as if he got on youtube a week before his book and watched a few 7 year old clips to formulate his opinion on fabian. Like i’m all for pros callin out dudes as it happens, why not if the claims are warranted or based on evidence. Doesn’t stop riders from going to the news about holding onto cars or making racists comments or intentionally trying to crash each other. I think it’s the convenient timing of his book claims that gets people triggered.

i don’t doubt the existence of motor doping or whatever but fabian has won plenty of other races in dare i say , similar fashion, without any funky cadence or hand gesture analysis on them against the same dudes. Seems to correspond and cohere as a truth claim.


Do you think that a no-name pack fodder dude making noise about one of the greatest stars in the sport would have been seriously listened to in 2010?


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