2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

[Wookski]

Personality and panache can easily make up for a wanker team/ boss. How many people would be hating on Sky if they developed somebody like Kwiato into a GC winner? Guarantee half the haters would be super-fans overnight regardless of the shadow of a sophisticated doping program.

[TurboKoo]

Does Froome always ride with inward bent shifters or is this just a result of a crash? And he appears to be using FD9070 in that picture too.

[kkibbler]

To better cock out his elbows my dear.

[Rob81]

This thread is ruined when people start competing to be the most cynical. We all know the sport has a murky history. I suggest that until actual evidence in the next case occurs you all bite your tongue and keep your sweeping condemnations to yourselves.

Cycling in general, as any sport, is ruined when there is no critical sense of what it's seen and/but (still) enjoyed. E.g., no and zero, doubts

No-one is motor doping, that's a false trail. Motor doping is just nonsense.

when there are dozen of people INSIDE the sport exposing this is/was a real problem. Unless you believe motor doping involved just a Belgian girl in cx...
The problem with the "keep your mouth shut till no doping emerges" is
a) most of the times doping doesn't emerge. Because new products are ALWAYS ahead of controls, because controllers can manipulate who and when control. LA is still a 7 Tour winner in a parallel universe where he didn't "came back 2.0" and step on the wrong feet. He never got caught. Hey a lot of people and even coaches and physiologists believed it was all real. There are Conconi clients out there with multiple GC wins and their palmares are untouched;
b) having no doubts and accepting whatever happens...will always make doping scandals cyclical and thus no use of history and past to prevent them.

/OT

[Rondje]

Since all the other multiple TdF winners were doped, and he probably isn't, then why shouldn't he be the best ever.

His fall is going to be epic as it was his "change" before/after September 2011. When the "system" will not need him or $ Sky as it was for LA.
But I agree with your sentence, except the underlined bit (it's a trivial bit ... )

Yes, his fall will be epic, if he falls. But when considering how hard he criticized Wiggens after Wiggins TUE incident, and how he (at first) refused to back Brailsford like all the other riders on the team, it would be very weird, if he potentially would test positive at some point. His behavior just doesn't point in that direction. He didn't have to criticize Wiggins that hard, and he didn't have to refuse to back Brailsford. He could just have hid in the crowd and back Brailsford like the other riders did.

That said, I know it's naive to think the top contenders aren't doping. But why don't they get caught then? Only Cardoso tested positive before the TdF, and no one since. And Cardoso isn't even GC material.

The fact that he criticises Wiggins and Brailsford doesn't say he's clean, might as well just try to stay out of the dirt. The thing that gives me a odd feeling about Froome is his career build up. I can't believe someone never preformed any good result and then comes out to win 4 GT's out of nothing, just at the point he was about to get dropped by Sky he turned into the "best" GT rider of his generation. All big GT riders have won loads of stuff during their career and in their youth, but that isn't the case for Froome. I don't say he is doping (altho he is probably in the same grey area as other top GC contenders) but his career build up just doesn't make sense to me.

[TonyM]

The fact that he criticises Wiggins and Brailsford doesn't say he's clean, might as well just try to stay out of the dirt. The thing that gives me a odd feeling about Froome is his career build up. I can't believe someone never preformed any good result and then comes out to win 4 GT's out of nothing, just at the point he was about to get dropped by Sky he turned into the "best" GT rider of his generation. All big GT riders have won loads of stuff during their career and in their youth, but that isn't the case for Froome. I don't say he is doping (altho he is probably in the same grey area as other top GC contenders) but his career build up just doesn't make sense to me.

Totally agree!!

[Miller]

Here we go, this thread is a trainwreck again.
There's a reason CN restricts doping discussions to the clinic.

[Miller]

I noticed that Sky were all using "aero" socks for all stages. Notice the vertical stripes and what looks like a thinner material.
As far as I know, this is a first for road stages. We often see this material used in a TT, but interesting to note they see a benefit all around.
I wonder how comfortable they are.. they look pretty tight!

I have aero socks for TTs, they're perfectly comfortable.

[Wookski]

Here we go, this thread is a trainwreck again.
There's a reason CN restricts doping discussions to the clinic.

Pro cycling and doping are inseparable

[Rob81]

apparently pro cycling and fanboys too

[Miller]

Any fool knows that pro cycling and doping have a long history. Fools keep telling us that every day like we don't know. Well, duh.

Nothing is added by saying what has been said a million times before. If you have nothing new to say, say nothing.

And if you're not a 'fanboy' what are you doing in this thread? If you don't like pro cycling, go somewhere else.

[Rob81]

fanboy= blind faith in a single athlete, mainly for nationalistic reasons (with Froome... Kenya, UK and Monaco are all fine )
It's clear you have no clue about sport history and you are watching cycling as any folk is watching WWE. Good for you.
When you have no support on your ideas you start attack who disagree with you on a personal level, again Fanboy, again WWE.

PS don't tell me where and what to do about this topic... or I'll tell you clearly where you can go

[Wingnut]

I don't really think Froome is doping but his lack of personality, panache, awful look on the bike and the seemingly unlimited budget of Sky almost consider he won't be considered as one of the greats imo...statistically he might be but within the public eye I don't believe so...Indurain was boring but Froome is a cadaver on wheels!

Problem is... that's not true. I'll give you boring public* persona, I'll give you stupid elbows, I'll give you soulless mega-team but....

He attacks uphill, he attacks downhill, he attacks in crosswinds, he attacks in the last few km of a nailed on sprint stage. Which current GT winner or A-grade contender except Contador has shown more bike racing panache than Froome?


* Apparently he's totally different away from the press. Some people hate the spotlight - doesn't mean they have no personality, they just don't like sharing it with everyone.

Sorry but he just doesn't tick many boxes for me, he just doesn't evoke any emotion when he does attack...I don't believe there are really any GT contenders that have much in the way of "panache" today...I hate to say it but the unrepentant doper (Valverde) probably has more, I do like to watch Dan Martin and Romain Bardet though...

[Miller]

PS don't tell me where and what to do about this topic... or I'll tell you clearly where you can go

I'm sure there's plenty of support for you shutting the F up.

[Mr.Gib]

The problem with Sky is Brailsford and his stupid MBA management wanker attitude.

The problem is the wanker part, not the MBA part. If he actually had an "MBA attitude", he would understand what creates value. Coming across like an ass destroys value. Brailsford's problem is his poor character, not his education.