2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

[nathanong87]

[Fiery]

Riders are a conservative bunch in general. They know it's the legs that win the day in the end, so they prefer equipment they are used to even if the new stuff might really be better.

Disclaimer: I don't care about the matter one way or the other. I'm not a pro nor will I ever be, and I'm using rim brakes at the moment without plans to change in the near future.

[Norregard]

Standardise the use of the covers so everyone has the same 'disadvantage', problem solved.

The whole point of the exercise it to get people to buy disc bikes, so the groupset manufacturers can sell a complete new groupset. It has nothing to do with braking improvements - if this were the case, riders would lobby FOR discs. Instead you see very few riders promoting discs, and most seem to do it because it's their job.

If the brakes are made deliberately ugly, people won't buy them, simple as that.

I don't see how that is relevant. You could argue that disc brakes are ugly as they are right now. This is a (potential) safety issue for professional cyclists. UCI could, as well as any other governing body or cyclosportive organisation, impose regulation on bike equipment. If you want to race disc brakes, you use covers. That doesn't mean automatically mean that the average customer or fred has to use covers for a ride along the local roads. It changes nothing for the customer.

[Marin]

I don't see how that is relevant.

Because it's a marketing excercise, and not a technical approval process.

Industry sponsors teams (and through them the UCI) and pays media to promote a product, customers see product and want to buy it.

If the product the pros use is different than what is available for purchase, the above doesn't work.

[KWalker]

The VN video shows that pros are probably full of shit about disc safety. I don't get why we trust their words at face value when they are known for lying, doping, and being shitheads. We don't trust elected officials in the same manner and they control our well-being, safety, and health.

[mrlobber]

See? Crash on discs, win on rims. The prosecution rests. :p

Haha, exactly what I wanted to say. In this case 1 watt saved of Venge rim vs Venge disc didn't hurt either

[Norregard]

I don't see how that is relevant.

Because it's a marketing excercise, and not a technical approval process.

Industry sponsors teams (and through them the UCI) and pays media to promote a product, customers see product and want to buy it.

If the product the pros use is different than what is available for purchase, the above doesn't work.

Hadn't looked at it that way, and that is certainly a valid point, but I'm still not sure it's that clear cut. There are plenty of examples of equipment looking near enough to what the pros use that customers are still buying. Most pros use electronic groupsets and tubs. I haven't done any research but I'm safely assuming the biggest customer market is mechanical groupsets and clinchers. I also don't know many amateurs that have a bike fit like a pro, but they still buy the bikes, 7 spacers or not. Not many amateurs are weight weenies but they are still out there, happily riding their 7,5-8kg bike.

[kkibbler]

The VN video shows that pros are probably full of shit about disc safety. I don't get why we trust their words at face value when they are known for lying, doping, and being shitheads. We don't trust elected officials in the same manner and they control our well-being, safety, and health.

The pros don't need and don't care about your trust. They are making demands with regards to the perceived safety of their workplace. You'd think that would be enough but it appears it isn't, and unfortunately as a result there's more willingness to look for convenient, probably erroneous, and possibly dishonest assertions to try to keep their workplace the way they like it.

[maquisard]

The VN video shows that pros are probably full of shit about disc safety.

As others have pointed out that video completely neglects that a bike moving around in the peloton is subject to momentum and inertia that a bike clamped in a trainer or on rollers isn't. Furthermore the real world bike has a 75-80kg sprinter on it.

It is like comparing the scenarios of falling off while doing 80kph down a road outdoors with falling off doing 80kph on the rollers.

We don't trust elected officials in the same manner and they control our well-being, safety, and health.

You realise the elected officials are the UCI, I think is is fair enough not to completely trust them!

[Rondje]

Almost every cycling related news/review/whatever website is sponsored by brands. And thus they are the advocates of the pro discs since they get payed to do so. I trust that VN clip just as much as I trust Doull.

In other news, whats up with Sagan? That beard
http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/sp ... st=7.39499
Nice to hear his honest opinion about discs, not what I expected from a big speci sponsored rider.

[LeDuke]

The VN video shows that pros are probably full of shit about disc safety.

As others have pointed out that video completely neglects that a bike moving around in the peloton is subject to momentum and inertia that a bike clamped in a trainer or on rollers isn't. Furthermore the real world bike has a 75-80kg sprinter on it.

It is like comparing the scenarios of falling off while doing 80kph down a road outdoors with falling off doing 80kph on the rollers.

We don't trust elected officials in the same manner and they control our well-being, safety, and health.

You realise the elected officials are the UCI, I think is is fair enough not to completely trust them!

The momentum would be away from his foot, as Kittel is locking up his front end and the bike is rotating AWAY from Doull. Doull did not get slammed into by Kittel, if anything Kittel was moving away, oh his right, when he got caught up.

Sorry, but I'm not inclined to believe Doull or Ventoso when video evidence strongly indicates a disc was not the cause of injury to the former, and certainly wasn't to the latter.



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[KWalker]

The VN video shows that pros are probably full of shit about disc safety.

As others have pointed out that video completely neglects that a bike moving around in the peloton is subject to momentum and inertia that a bike clamped in a trainer or on rollers isn't. Furthermore the real world bike has a 75-80kg sprinter on it.

It is like comparing the scenarios of falling off while doing 80kph down a road outdoors with falling off doing 80kph on the rollers.

We don't trust elected officials in the same manner and they control our well-being, safety, and health.

You realise the elected officials are the UCI, I think is is fair enough not to completely trust them!

Others have failed to mention how these factors actually would increase the force between the two contact points. I would like to hear how they would actually increase the cutting force compared to literally putting the shoe there and holding it for much longer than it would contact the disc in a crash. Crashes also stop the bike in most cases. So no, I don't think it's the same. Not until someone can actually demonstrate visually or with some kind of measurement.

The UCI is a great example of my point.

For years mariners claimed the Earth was flat. I mean, after all, you couldn't measure it's curvature and it looked flat so it must be right? And they sail it so therefore they're the authorities on the matter.

[Leviathan]

Standardise the use of the covers so everyone has the same 'disadvantage', problem solved.

The whole point of the exercise it to get people to buy disc bikes, so the groupset manufacturers can sell a complete new groupset. It has nothing to do with braking improvements - if this were the case, riders would lobby FOR discs. Instead you see very few riders promoting discs, and most seem to do it because it's their job.

If the brakes are made deliberately ugly, people won't buy them, simple as that.

this

[Dr.Dos]

In other news, whats up with Sagan? That beard
http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/sp ... st=7.39499
Nice to hear his honest opinion about discs, not what I expected from a big speci sponsored rider.

I'd say he looks really sharp at this time of the season:

[wingguy]

For years mariners claimed the Earth was flat. I mean, after all, you couldn't measure it's curvature and it looked flat so it must be right? And they sail it so therefore they're the authorities on the matter.

No, to the extent they thought about it at all, mariners would generally have been the least likely to think the earth was flat. The sea is pretty much the easiest place to tell that the earth is curved, because things disappear over the horizon.