2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

[nathanong87]

Either the sport has dramatically cleaned up and the only guys doping now are the amateurs and lower level pros, or doping has moved on to something different. I think the latter is much more likely.

yea it's moved onto gran fondo amateurs....
https://gfny.com/positive-doping-control-at-gfny-nyc-epo/

Five positive tests in six years of testing may seem a lot for an event where the majority are amateurs,” says GFNY CEO Uli Fluhme. “It’s simple though: you can’t catch cheaters if you don’t perform doping controls. And unfortunately most races still don’t test sufficiently or at all.

[KWalker]

Not surprised when I see that the rider is from somewhere where you can buy steroids and hormonal products over the counter and they are widely used in lots of sports, gyms, and even at the recommendation of personal trainers in said gyms. We have this European and American sensibility about the subject, but in a lot of places it's very easy and very common for athletes to get and take stuff that is banned at the pro level. Yet we legally sell pre-workout supplements with enough stimulants to kill an entire zoo in one scoop and that's a bit more ethical.

[natefontaine]

in mcnulty and costa we trust.

At least someone is paying attention


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[tymon_tm]

I don't know how much doping related this is, but during this years Polish Nats, the amateur race started 15 minutes earlier on the same course. guess what - they caught the 'real' peloton...

10 years ago an average speed of say 35-38 kmh would put you in a top 10, maybe 5 during most of masters events, "national doctors' championships" and so on. today it would be hard to hang on in the group. I know - the equipment is just stratospherical (esp TT gear), training methods improve, but come on...

[ultyguy]

tymon- that's not that odd. I regularly ride the Tour de l'Ain amateur version and on flat or easier stages we will be faster than the pros 50/50 because the racing is super uncontrolled and full of attacks and chasing and full gas. The pros on an easier stage will ride easy for a lot of the time (breakaway cat and mouse) and then ride the last hour at an insane pace that would spit out almost all amateurs. However, when we get to the real mountains the pros are much much faster.

edit and ps- for what it's worth, I can hang at the top of most non-giant mountain events in France....but Italy is another story enitrely

[Rondje]

Poor Sinkeldam

[ultyguy]

That's really poor


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[MattSoutherden]

Really poor - especially given the TT kit TD has had the last few years.

[CrankAddictsRich]

yep... not the best showing. Maybe they were going for bonus points for being first to the line with a kit? hahaha

[nathanong87]

long awaited steve O, really likeable dude and his interview in 2016 on cycling news had some gems

"i can't guarantee victories the way i race, but i can guarantee this many watts, for this many minutes, at this weight, and normally that is enough to be competitive....then it's a bike race. I can guarantee I can get to the level, but not the victory."

[CrankAddictsRich]

Yah I think he was overhyped. He was good, don't get me wrong. But at the pro level what you did as a U23 is a cool story bro, but not really relevant anymore. It's a different level and different races completely. That 2012 worlds was a good result, but almost no one was on form/there either. And, as your post shows, the results list is pretty damn short at the WT level for there to be so many VN stories about him taking a shit or swapping tires or other mundane crap. When he won Dubai Tour and the ToC stage (not a WT race at the time) I think the hype hit a crescendo.

Compare him to a youngster named Michel Kwiatkowski, who is the same age and didn't have three years of constant media coverage. Let's check out his 2014 season:
-World Champ
-1st Strade Bianchi, 2 monument podiums, and 2nd at Tour of Basque country.

That's leaving out 80% of his other top 10s. His palamares for that season alone shits on Phinney's entire career.

And Phinney isn't doing anything for marketing the sport towards a younger generation. It's no secret that racing in the U.S. is on a huge decline, oddly so in states such as NY and CA where "classic" races are lucky to get over 30 starters now. That's not entirely related to any specific riders, but they definitely are not bringing people to the sport necessarily.

I guess it's sorta like how we all got tired of Andy Schleck excuse articles. After a while you want to read something different and maybe of substance and sometimes reading articles in VN from the same cadre of Colorado based twenty somethings gets repetitive.

I agree that U23 results really aren't worth anything at the pro level.. plenty of people get U23 results and do nothing on the next step, but in Phinney's case he seemed to be able to get results at the next level. The accident however, derailed us from being able to see if those initial results were genuine or just flukes.

As for Kwiato, it seems as if you're saying that you don't think he's gotten the acknowledgement he deserves from the US press and I'm not sure I agree. Kwiato is 100% a talent and I've got 3 or 4 back issues of VeloNews with articles about him and cover shots... more than Phinney. I actually think the only one I have with Phinney on the cover is the first issue after their re-branding and the article was about the struggle to get back into form after the accident... I guess two covers if you count the bike buyer's guide issue with the BMC he painted. I'm not saying that the US sources don't Hype the US riders, they do... I just don't think Phinney falls into that category. I think he was the real deal and could have done great things. I root for him no, just in hopes that he finds a way to get back to that former glory, but at this point, I don't honestly expect to see it. There is a whole cadre of US riders that I do think falls into that "HYPE" category though, that I've never understood.... Joe Dombrowski, Howes, Ted King (never understood his hype), a few others.

[djwalker]

I think that the US has had a lot of good riders in Europe for decades. The problem is that in the US if you don't win everything then you are considered a complete loser. Since I got interested in cycling in 1979 (yes, I am THAT old) there has been a steady stream of top quality riders in both the non-doping and the doping eras. People would were in the top 10 or 20. When I started riding Greg Lemond was a junior. He, obviously was quite successful and would have been more so if he hadn't lost a good fraction of a lung. After that Andy Hampsten, Davis Phinney, Connie Carpenter, Rebecca Twigg, Beth Heiden (and to a lesser extent Eric Heiden), Marty Nothstein on the track, Lance (of course), Levi Leipheimer, Kevin Livingston, Frankie Andreu, Tyler Hamilton. Etc., etc. Many more on the track and mountain biking. And a reasonable crop of good riders today. People that are in the top 5 or 10% of all pros. In most sports these guys would go into their respective Halls of Fame. In cycling they are considered losers by the general public. I think it is at least partly due to the fact that the average American has no idea about cycling so if the guy doesn't win the Tour then they are a nobody. Compare that to the major sports like Football, Baseball, and Basketball where you have probably heard of the players even if you don't watch the games. Something like Hockey is probably in the middle between the Majors and Cycling. Until Cycling becomes a sport which everyone watches and participates in then the attitude probably won't change.

[KWalker]

I wasn't saying Kwiato hasn't gotten the acknowledgement, but I was comparing him to Phinney since they are the same age. And referring more to the web versions of VN or CN, where Phinney was often featured.

I don't see it as having to win everything necessarily, but have some consistency at the top level in whatever it is one is good at. Phinney was starting to show that more and more with shorter prologue type TTs, but every year there was some article about his meticulous TT prep for worlds or the olympics and after a while reading about the guy that got 4th so much isn't all that interesting. Hopefully his leg injury isn't career-ending because honestly I want an American, even one that I might not like necessarily, to do something cool.

[bilwit]

Phinney, TJVG, Dombrowski, Boswell, etc all get featured regularly on Velonews/CyclingNews/CyclingWeekly because the US makes a large part of their viewers and they think that's what we want. Ironically, everyone is so tired and annoyed about reading about them when all the useless things being featured in those don't amount to much in terms of results. Good riders, just nowhere near worth the type of coverage they get on those sites.

[wingguy]

Great style! Pretty much everyone I know has him in their fantasy TdF team just because of being Stevo