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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:29 pm 
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^the way I read this, they used TUEs whenever they felt they could improve athletes' performance. if we connect the dots, knowing what we know regarding the timing alone, I'd say it's justified to claim SKY did bend the rules.

the argument is TUEs were obtained legally, and that's probably true. but there's a flipside to that coin - the fact those TUEs were obtained in specific "windows", right before important races, begs the question of integrity.

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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:29 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:31 pm 
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The reason why every one is talking about this as well is that it is Team Sky, a team founded on the basis of being cleaner that all others. When asked about the TUE issue last year Brailsford said the team did the right thing, the right thing being that they not only followed the letter of the law, but also were ethically clean. It is pretty clear they weren't.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:00 am 
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maquisard wrote:
The reason why every one is talking about this as well is that it is Team Sky, a team founded on the basis of being cleaner that all others. When asked about the TUE issue last year Brailsford said the team did the right thing, the right thing being that they not only followed the letter of the law, but also were ethically clean. It is pretty clear they weren't.


They have their own ethics.....LOL....


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:08 am 
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bilwit wrote:
AJS914 wrote:
Quote:
Sutton's admission SKY does bend the rules


I read Sutton's statement and he didn't say that. He specifically said that they didn't cross the line. He said if they were 95% and had a niggling issue and a TUE was available to get them to 100%, he'd use it. His statement is not even newsworthy.


the media headline spin has taken it way out of context and viewership just eats this stuff up, it's pretty hilarious

Finally some common sense. Sutton made no admission beyond using TUE’s to treat sick riders. To extrapolate that into some sort of smoking gun is absurd- as if they’d make it that easy :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:44 pm 
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Wookski wrote:
bilwit wrote:
AJS914 wrote:
Quote:
Sutton's admission SKY does bend the rules


I read Sutton's statement and he didn't say that. He specifically said that they didn't cross the line. He said if they were 95% and had a niggling issue and a TUE was available to get them to 100%, he'd use it. His statement is not even newsworthy.


the media headline spin has taken it way out of context and viewership just eats this stuff up, it's pretty hilarious

Finally some common sense. Sutton made no admission beyond using TUE’s to treat sick riders. To extrapolate that into some sort of smoking gun is absurd- as if they’d make it that easy :roll:


Ahh, I see. You are perfectly comfortable with Sutton/Sky determining when an athlete is at only at 95%, and thus eligible for a little helper. Like the one time that I was able to hit 400 watts for 15 minutes, that's my 100%. So now that I can only hit 380, I'm clearly not at 100%, training isn't closing the gap, I must be "sick". So a little Tramadol, or steroid isn't doping, it's just keeping me healthy.

Just to frame things, I've never been, nor will I ever be elite. And I'm not even sure that I believe that some of this shit (salbutamol) works as a PED. But it's remarkable how many of these guys have asthma (I've been sent to the hospital with it) and use this stuff. it is suspicious how some of these directors seem to influence medical decisions, which are then carried out by Doctors who can't seem to remember facts about their patients.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Jess Varnish's suit against British cycling regarding being an employee vs contractor could be a watershed moment in the sport. If she wins, I'm guessing the whole program will be shrunk significantly due to costs associated with insurance, pensions etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:43 pm 
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spud wrote:
Wookski wrote:
bilwit wrote:
AJS914 wrote:

I read Sutton's statement and he didn't say that. He specifically said that they didn't cross the line. He said if they were 95% and had a niggling issue and a TUE was available to get them to 100%, he'd use it. His statement is not even newsworthy.


the media headline spin has taken it way out of context and viewership just eats this stuff up, it's pretty hilarious

Finally some common sense. Sutton made no admission beyond using TUE’s to treat sick riders. To extrapolate that into some sort of smoking gun is absurd- as if they’d make it that easy :roll:


Ahh, I see. You are perfectly comfortable with Sutton/Sky determining when an athlete is at only at 95%, and thus eligible for a little helper. Like the one time that I was able to hit 400 watts for 15 minutes, that's my 100%. So now that I can only hit 380, I'm clearly not at 100%, training isn't closing the gap, I must be "sick". So a little Tramadol, or steroid isn't doping, it's just keeping me healthy.

Just to frame things, I've never been, nor will I ever be elite. And I'm not even sure that I believe that some of this shit (salbutamol) works as a PED. But it's remarkable how many of these guys have asthma (I've been sent to the hospital with it) and use this stuff. it is suspicious how some of these directors seem to influence medical decisions, which are then carried out by Doctors who can't seem to remember facts about their patients.

Suttons interview, as so many things in this case, is open to interpretation and hence merely serves to solidify the general publics already entrenched and polarized views. Think Kate Archibald was right to comment that Sutton using the term "marginal gain" in this context was, at least, poorly phrased. What I find more unbelievable, and more of a smoking gun is Dr Freeman continues to not be forced to answer at the UK Commons select committee due to "continued ill health" despite hanging around the track coffee shop, and that the company who supplied BC with testosterone patches "in error" basically told UK sport to bugger off in its inquiries.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:47 pm 
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I just got an english translated copy of the Thomas Dekker book "Descent".

Seems to me that most/all teams were using cortisone with impunity- The Wiggins/Sutton thing is just internet babble in 2017.

5-10 years ago this would have never surfaced.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:43 pm 
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spud wrote:
Wookski wrote:
bilwit wrote:
AJS914 wrote:

I read Sutton's statement and he didn't say that. He specifically said that they didn't cross the line. He said if they were 95% and had a niggling issue and a TUE was available to get them to 100%, he'd use it. His statement is not even newsworthy.


the media headline spin has taken it way out of context and viewership just eats this stuff up, it's pretty hilarious

Finally some common sense. Sutton made no admission beyond using TUE’s to treat sick riders. To extrapolate that into some sort of smoking gun is absurd- as if they’d make it that easy :roll:


Ahh, I see. You are perfectly comfortable with Sutton/Sky determining when an athlete is at only at 95%, and thus eligible for a little helper.


No, but I'm pretty comfortable with the multiple independent medical practitioners that approved the dosage prescribed and WADA signing off on it on top of that.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:05 pm 
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anything else good in the Dekker book?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:02 pm 
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He had a communal wanking session with Steven de Jongh in a hotel room over some TV porn.

Male bonding.

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/11/sex-dru ... -my-fight/


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:20 pm 
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Anyone who is outraged with Sky and TUES might read up on the MPCC and the info put forth in the UCI reform commission.

What bothers me more are people in the media like David Millar. Dude used corticos himself, has written at length about it, and was in the pro peloton a couple years ago. Yet he states "When I heard that, a little bit of me died to be honest" further fueling the outrage machine. The guy is so opportunistically disingenuous.

Meanwhile no concern questions about Columbia's U23 champ getting popped for EPO.

Where do you get the Dekker book in english? LOL sounds interesting.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:06 pm 
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maquisard wrote:
He had a communal wanking session with Steven de Jongh in a hotel room over some TV porn.

Male bonding.

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/11/sex-dru ... -my-fight/



Wow that's a book!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:57 pm 
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Re: Gaimon and Cancellara, and tying it al in with TUE
In Jan 30, 2016 in 2016 'PRO' cycling discussion., HammerTime2 wrote:
Can you get a TUE to have an electric motor if you are diagnosed with SCS*? And if you're like Lance, have it backdated?

SCS: Slow Climber Syndrome
In my opinion, most of these TUEs are no more legit than this would be.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:18 am 
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bilwit wrote:
spud wrote:
Wookski wrote:
bilwit wrote:

the media headline spin has taken it way out of context and viewership just eats this stuff up, it's pretty hilarious

Finally some common sense. Sutton made no admission beyond using TUE’s to treat sick riders. To extrapolate that into some sort of smoking gun is absurd- as if they’d make it that easy :roll:


Ahh, I see. You are perfectly comfortable with Sutton/Sky determining when an athlete is at only at 95%, and thus eligible for a little helper.


No, but I'm pretty comfortable with the multiple independent medical practitioners that approved the dosage prescribed and WADA signing off on it on top of that.


I am not. I don't know of any physician that routinely treats allergies / asthma with intramuscular triamcinolone. It seems to be 'standard of care' ONLY in elite level athletes.

Completely agree that is within the rules. But I think most who would look at this objectively would probably agree the TUE rules should be changed.


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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:18 am 


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