2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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ichobi
Posts: 1794
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 pm

by ichobi

bilwit wrote:When the peleton is whittled down in the final 10km and every team is down to their GC guy and Sky still has THREE domestiques driving, it is impossible to attack or gain any time. Froome doesn't have to do any work because his teammates will shut down all the attacks for him. The fact that there are still domestiques left even PREVENTS attacks from happening because no one is going to waste precious energy to try and drop domestiques. They have to wait until the domestiques are spent before they can even try anything, which is why Landa always being there in the end was such a huge advantage for Sky. Froome was guaranteed to take considerable time out of all of them in the TT AND they had time to make up from the first TT. Combined with the fact that there were such few chances to gain any time (summit finishes), it was imperative that they made the most out of them and put time into Froome which they couldn't, largely thanks to Landa & Kwiatkoski. You don't win races by finishing at the same time as your rivals (unless you also happen to be within the top 5 TTers in the world ala Wiggins/Froome/Dumoulin).


I understand most of that.
What I don't understand is that why other team's ace should chase or care about Sky domestic in the first place if they are not high on GC? Obviously this year it worked like you said because Landa was a threat.

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bilwit
Posts: 1526
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:49 am
Location: Seattle, WA

by bilwit

ichobi wrote:
bilwit wrote:When the peleton is whittled down in the final 10km and every team is down to their GC guy and Sky still has THREE domestiques driving, it is impossible to attack or gain any time. Froome doesn't have to do any work because his teammates will shut down all the attacks for him. The fact that there are still domestiques left even PREVENTS attacks from happening because no one is going to waste precious energy to try and drop domestiques. They have to wait until the domestiques are spent before they can even try anything, which is why Landa always being there in the end was such a huge advantage for Sky. Froome was guaranteed to take considerable time out of all of them in the TT AND they had time to make up from the first TT. Combined with the fact that there were such few chances to gain any time (summit finishes), it was imperative that they made the most out of them and put time into Froome which they couldn't, largely thanks to Landa & Kwiatkoski. You don't win races by finishing at the same time as your rivals (unless you also happen to be within the top 5 TTers in the world ala Wiggins/Froome/Dumoulin).


I understand most of that.
What I don't understand is that why other team's ace should chase or care about Sky domestic in the first place if they are not high on GC? Obviously this year it worked like you said because Landa was a threat.


Wut. Generally no one cares about chasing domestiques if they aren't threatening GC. I thought we were talking about why having such an elite roster like Sky puts them at a huge advantage. If you're asking why teams sometimes send their domestiques up the road it's so that the leader basically has waypoints ahead of him that can help out along the way when the fireworks start. It also puts the onus on stage-hunting teams to help drive the peleton. This also includes other GC teams who may want to setup the stage for their leader to win in order to grab bonus seconds, though this isn't always the tactic for GC who often are content with letting the breakaway go.

wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

petepeterson wrote:I don't even know who else is going for GC and I love watching it but it's an afterthought for froome. My opinion/tin hat theory is that the vuelta is more about training and keeping weight off or effectively shortening the off season because sky send him every yr. The one yr he missed it was followed by his worst season since 2012.

So Froome has come second at the Vuelta 3 times (and lost last year through a tactical mistake in one stage), despite only going there to ride around and not even trying to do well? You must think he is the best bike rider ever! :wink:

Never mind trying to find the logic of Sky sending Froome there as sole GC leader as a training excercise when they have other legitimate GC candidates desperate to be let off the leash. No, they'd rather lose Landa to Movistar so Froome can have his ego stroked on a training ride than give Landa another shot at winning a title and keep him happy, motivated and on the team?

Do you think any of that makes sense or are you just messing?

petepeterson
Posts: 1402
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:58 am
Location: 604

by petepeterson

I said tin foil hat theory for a reason. Of course he's motivated to do well but I believe there are physiological benefits for the next season that are more important to Sky than Froome winning GC. No one has won both since the Vuelta moved to the end of the season and it is rare for a Vuelta winner to have even ridden the tour. If he really cared about winning the Vuelta he wouldn't do the tour. If he does well at the Vuelta that is gravy but my belief is it's more about preparing for the next season. If it aint broke don't fix it stuff... And Sky didn't buy Landa to win the Vuelta. They bought him to help Froome and you FYI he has been on a Giro/Tour program the last two years because the Vuelta is a distant 3rd for GT's.

petepeterson
Posts: 1402
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:58 am
Location: 604

by petepeterson

BTW this could be his year looking at the start list... Nibali, Kruiswiik, who else..?

Multebear
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

wingguy wrote:You must think he is the best bike rider ever! :wink:


At least the best grand tour rider ever. Since all the other multiple TdF winners were doped, and he probably isn't, then why shouldn't he be the best ever.

AJS914
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Maybe just a few TUEs along the way... :-)

Multebear
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

thePrince wrote:
It's another what if, but if Froome and Uran swapped teams, do y'all think Froome would have won? Froome was better (but not that much better) in the ITTs, and with the Sky train, maybe Uran could have cracked him in the mountains. I'm not convinced, but interesting to consider.



That is a very interesting what if. One that I have thought about as well. In other words, did Froome win this TdF because he had the best team, or because he overall was the best rider.

Uran hasn't got a strong team. But he managed to hold/follow Froomes/sky's wheel/pace the whole race. And only left the wheel in order to try to take time out of Froome. And he only succeeded on a few stages, and only because Froome couldn't follow on the steepest of climbs. Besides that, he took some bonus seconds. Froome rides a better TT than Uran. Obviously Uran would have had to take more time on Froome in the mountains. But I don't see, where that would have been possible, even if the their teams would have been swapped and Froome just would have followed Uran/Urans team.

Multebear
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm

by Multebear

AJS914 wrote:Maybe just a few TUEs along the way... :-)


I don't think he has any. Froomes kind of "doping" is the marginal gains game and the financial doping. But that's inside the rules, not outside.

CrankAddictsRich
Posts: 2313
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:39 pm
Contact:

by CrankAddictsRich

Multebear wrote:
AJS914 wrote:Maybe just a few TUEs along the way... :-)


I don't think he has any. Froomes kind of "doping" is the marginal gains game and the financial doping. But that's inside the rules, not outside.


hahaha... yes he does.

maquisard
Posts: 3773
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

Indeed, Froome had the highly suspect emergency TUE before Romandie in 2014. A race he then went on to win.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report- ... -romandie/

jeffy
Posts: 1325
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:51 pm

by jeffy

... not to mention out-of-comptition where no TUE is neccessary.

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kkibbler
Posts: 905
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:30 am

by kkibbler

jeffy wrote:... not to mention out-of-comptition where no TUE is neccessary.

Pretty prudent if the stuff might still be in the bloodstream in-competition.

CrankAddictsRich
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Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:39 pm
Contact:

by CrankAddictsRich

I was just looking through a bunch of the pics from the final stage and I caught this pic of Cannondale. Did anyone notice that they had "Oath" on the back of their bibs for the final stage? I think they had just announced the deal with them on Friday or Saturday, pretty good work to make sure the bibs were branded for the final stage.

Image

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Skylark
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:37 pm
Location: The Delta Flyer

by Skylark

Oath of Office. Maybe it should be Oats.

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