2017 'PRO' cycling discussion.

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wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

bilwit wrote:Ah, the plea for a middle ground, classic. That's funny, I can make the exact same argument.

No, not if you stand by what you've already written you can't.

I never said that he doesn't attack. I am of the opinion that attacking isn't a signature characteristic of his riding style, yet of course because he attacks once every grand tour like at Peyresourde last year,

Once every grand tour? Previously you said once every half decade, so now you're of the opinion that he attacks roughly ten times as often as you said earlier. Pretty significant change, don't you think? Is it any wonder I disagree with you when even you disagree with you?

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Rondje
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by Rondje

Wingguy I know you defend Froome because you say he gets attacked to often (I disagree but fine). But isn't it his own fault? He decides to ride for a dubious team, he decides to ignore the press or block people on social media when they ask hard questions or say things he doesn't like. Cycling as a sport is praised because you can get so close to the athletes, but his (and his team's) acts are opposite of this. It are not characteristics of a rider that get's liked by the fans.
You don't think Contador ever got questions he didn't like? Or Cavendish, or any other big rider. It's part of the job, they get payed that much to have that heat.

TurboKoo
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by TurboKoo

Please let's stop this arguing and doping talk and get back to topic.

Did anyone see that Michael Mathews and Warren Barguil were riding with Shimano power meter?
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wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

Rondje wrote:Wingguy I know you defend Froome because you say he gets attacked to often (I disagree but fine). But isn't it his own fault? He decides to ride for a dubious team, he decides to ignore the press or block people on social media when they ask hard questions or say things he doesn't like.

But again (again) I agreed with the guy that he's boring, looks stupid, rides for a shady team etc. The only thing I'm disagreeing with is a completely separate issue - how he actually rides. Because reality is what it is, even when you think Froome's a douche.

maquisard
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
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by maquisard

MattSoutherden wrote:
wingguy wrote:Bloody hell! After finally getting some scans it turns out Dan Martin raced the two weeks after Mont du Chat with two cracked vertebrae in his lower back. :unbelievable:

Says it didn't give him any problems on the bike. What is wrong with these people? :wink:


Like G riding the whole 2013 Tour with a fractured pelvis.

Come to think of it. How come Porte sacked it off? Wuss.

(this post may contain humour)


The phrases fractured vertebra and a fractured pelvis can cover a multitude of conditions from very benign to life threatening.

Geraint Thomas' pelvic fracture was benign and stable enough to allow him to continue. Porte had an acetabular fracture (hip socket) which would not have allowed him to continue under any circumstance. At the other end of the scale an open book pelvic fracture is a medical emergency and a life threatening bleed is possible.

The same applies to fractures of the vertebral bodies. Most are compression fractures which are pretty benign and treated conservatively. They only become a real issue when they are unstable or have neurological involvement. I was hit by a car when training and suffered two compression fractures but was discharged from hospital as they weren't initially noticed. After the imaging was reviewed by a radiologist a week later I updated as to the nature of the injury. In the interim I'd been out on the bike training again and felt okay, just a bit stiff after finishing the ride. Of course the Tour de France is a different story in terms of intensity and volume but it is possible to continue injured.

Rondje
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by Rondje

wingguy wrote:
Rondje wrote:Wingguy I know you defend Froome because you say he gets attacked to often (I disagree but fine). But isn't it his own fault? He decides to ride for a dubious team, he decides to ignore the press or block people on social media when they ask hard questions or say things he doesn't like.

But again (again) I agreed with the guy that he's boring, looks stupid, rides for a shady team etc. The only thing I'm disagreeing with is a completely separate issue - how he actually rides. Because reality is what it is, even when you think Froome's a douche.


I don't think he is a douche, don't know him well enough to judge on that. I just think he isn't made for the job since he apparently can't handle the pressure (not in race, but outside of it) well enough. About his attacking I don't know. He isn't the most boring guy (like for example Evans who always followed or Mollema until this TDF) but he isn't the most lively one either, I'd say he is just a normal style GT rider. I also think part of this boring image comes from his total image as a rider. When you always give text book media training answers, don't interact with the public well but prefer to separate yourself from it your image get made like that. It's the total package that decides how people see someone.

Last year he was above average active, this year he was pretty passive, but so where many others. I think people expect more from the best GT rider of the current moment. Guys like Yates and Meintjes are happy that they are still there so probably can't attack. But the better you get the higher the expectations so people expect more (too much) of Froome, even when he's obviously in a lesser form this year.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

Rondje wrote:Wingguy I know you defend Froome because you say he gets attacked to often (I disagree but fine). But isn't it his own fault? He decides to ride for a dubious team, he decides to ignore the press or block people on social media when they ask hard questions or say things he doesn't like. Cycling as a sport is praised because you can get so close to the athletes, but his (and his team's) acts are opposite of this. It are not characteristics of a rider that get's liked by the fans.
You don't think Contador ever got questions he didn't like? Or Cavendish, or any other big rider. It's part of the job, they get payed that much to have that heat.


it's a deeper issue - dirt is what sells papers, or rather - gets you the right amount of 'clicks'. no one cares about a nice story, with happy people doing good stuff. everyone seeks the dark side, and who - if not the biggest stars - is worthy of our time and attention? I bet there are shadier teams and cyclists than Froome/SKY (whome I don't like very much myself and who I believe are infact dirty) - for instance a small Italian team popped two positives just before the Giro - it's very likely it's a real dope farm that establishment, but who cares, how many people will react to a headline with some unknown names in it? how can you sell such a piece of news if it doesn't contain names at least barely recognizable from "Toor the Frends" or, I don't know, social media.

in that way every successful rider is subjected to such a hunt. but is it totally unjustified? of course not, see: recent cycling history. besides, the way you handle yourself, the media, the way you do business, your entourage, it all adds up. SKY's done a lot of harm branding themselves the fair and clean ones, only to be found later as (basically) liars and cheaters. this is a path that leads straight to hell, despite the context - there's a saying in my language "the hell is paved with good intentions". in this case it's clearly so, and whether a certain rider does or doesn't do what he's being accused of, those impressions of him are the fuel for the press, the media, everyone that makes a living from writing the stuff other's read.
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Frankie - B
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by Frankie - B

Please quit the arguing. There are no winners in an argument, only losers.

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peted76
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by peted76

Anyways.. thoughts on this years Vuelta a Espana... I'm looking forward to seeing Dumoulin vs Froome (which other GT contenders are TT and Climbing specialists?) TomD has to be made out as Froomes successor.... but is he yet his suppressor?
Seeing what Dan Martin can do on a GT this year his form's been there but fortune hasn't.
Will Landa go as joint leader and get the backing from Sky?
How many more French stage wins? Seems like they are riding a wave of success after such a drought...
I'd love to see Esteban Chaves back on track for this race and do well (not even sure he'll race it though.

maquisard
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Location: France

by maquisard

Dumoulin isn't riding the Vuelta

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/no-vuel ... -dumoulin/

Neither is Landa

bikewithnoname
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Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:29 pm
Location: Paris

by bikewithnoname

So it's Froome, Contador, both Yates', Valverde and maybe Nibali?
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Leviathan
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by Leviathan

Im hoping its a Yates for the win, if for no other reason it'll be interesting to see if all the US noobs on here are anti-Sky, or just anti-UK (Im betting the latter as noones seem to have mentioned Landa outpacing everyone whilst, its seems, still having breath to sing Glibert & Sullivans "The very Modern Model of a Modern Major-General".

Kurets
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Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:55 pm

by Kurets

How can anyone believe that Valverde will be competing in the Vuelta!? From what I have read, his plan is to be on the stationary trainer around the time of the Vuelta.

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dj97223
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by dj97223

“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”

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Rondje
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by Rondje

I expect Kruijswijk to be there as well. Can't remember much racing days except the Giro so he should be relativly fresh.
Orica going to be interesting with both Yates brothers and Chavez, too many captains or masterplan?
I though that I've seen an article that Valverde aims for 2018.

Thanks for calling all of us American noobs Leviathan, sadly your theory is bullshit because I believe Wiggins had (when active) and Thomas has plenty of "fans" here.

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