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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:42 am 
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That’s actually how you see if they are smart and retire before something like this happens...


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:50 am 
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Location: Netherlands
bilwit wrote:
Rondje wrote:
There is also no need to retrospectivly re-award anything as long as he isn’t punished yet, it’s up to Sky now to prove something (I got no idea what) to clear Froome of these charges before he does get punished.
They have to prove (with medical records--we know Sky are good at those) that a legal amount was inhaled AND he has to go in a lab and show that his body produces an abnormally high concentration given a legal dosage. They're absolutely boned unless these requirements are waived for whatever reason or he miraculously does pass the test in the lab (in which case, why hasn't he been flagged for this in all the other years he's taken it?). Precedent has already been set. He should face a substantial ban and be stripped of the Vuelta title.
I can’t see any way in which they can prove that a rider in his 30’s who is active for years and never had this problem all of the sudden has this problem. But then again it is Froome, a rider who road anonymous in the peloton till his 27th and then all the sudden became one of the best GT riders ever. So maybe his body is still evovling.


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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:50 am 


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:26 am 
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bilwit wrote:
What's more disturbing is that it took a media leak for this to come out
Yup, despite all the changes and prosecutions/dismissals of lab employees and problems with trial by media, we're still getting leaks.

This needs to be stopped.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:31 am 
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Posts: 560
Location: Where the permanent autumn is
Regarding the mentions of an echo-positive, I simply refuse to believe they can get away with blood transfusions in 2017. They still might have 5-6 years ago (remember Contador's plasticized blood while clenbuteroling), but now???
If they can, this means all top guys are doing it to "level the field", just like in Armstrong's era.

Again, so sad for the sport :(


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:05 am 
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Posts: 1128
Location: FIN
"Asthma" is well known "disease" in winter sport. Specially in Norwegian cross country ; after recognition most of Norwegian skiers moved from 3rd and 4th row to podium places.... Sounds familiar ;) ?

It isn't so difficult to achieve on tests result showing you're allowed to use "asthma medication", which ( if athlete is healthy ) increase performance SIGNIFICALLY, assuming allowed dosage, not doubled ;)

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Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:14 am 
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Posts: 187
I think that the Norwegian cross-country ski team Norway is the best at handling these. All are asthmatic and there have been so few doping cases against them.
Yet for some reason they tend to win everything in ladies and men series. And not just with one in the podium, mainly from 2 to 3.

Froomes discovery is really serious in the era when grand tours have been highly competitive and now one guy pops out and sails from 1 tdf win to another, even taking double when everyone thinks it is not doable anymore.
Sure a better team than rest helps a lot but he's been flying.
Now I don't really like the SKY but defending Froome on this instance is a bit blatant. His history with asthma is well know and why all the sudden his values pop out and the same time performance.

I'm not into medical (engineer by trait) but on the discussion of the Secret Pro https://cyclingtips.com/2017/12/secret- ... ikes-ride/ there seems to be quite convincing points about salbutamol affecting on performance and recovery.

Have to wait and see how it turns out. Grab your popcorns and let the next turning point in this plot reveal itself


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:17 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:08 am
Posts: 166
Location: UK
LeDuke wrote:
If you can't breathe because of a naturally occurring condition, how is taking a substance to enhance your body's natural ability NOT cheating?
By the same logic an energy gel or bottle of water is performance enhancing


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:39 am
Posts: 187
Haydn wrote:
LeDuke wrote:
If you can't breathe because of a naturally occurring condition, how is taking a substance to enhance your body's natural ability NOT cheating?
By the same logic an energy gel or bottle of water is performance enhancing
Energy is consumed by all. Not every cyclist have breathing issues. So no, it's not the same.
Sure the amounts vary but everyone still need energy intake a lot.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:25 am 
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Posts: 166
Location: UK
Fair enough, each to their own

Are we contending that nobody taking any form of medication should participate in competitive sport?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:28 am 
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Posts: 1128
Location: FIN
if you can't breath, you're sick/disabled. There are plenty of opportunities for disabled people, like paraolympics for example... Leave professional sport for healthy people. But seriously ; border between being or not allowed for substances increasing performance is way to thin. It makes plenty of room for cheating.

I watch carefully cyclocross scene. And wonder WHEN guy who's winning everything recently will be catched... Other guy ( which is just behind him ) has already issues with some videos showing his bike "technological advantage"... After changing the brand ... he's not so fast anymore ;)

_________________
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Mark Twain


I can be wrong, and have plenty of examples for that ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:07 am 
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Location: Vicenza
In other news, Trek-Segafredo 2018 kit.

Image

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My current ride


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:30 am 
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Posts: 66
mrlobber wrote:
Regarding the mentions of an echo-positive, I simply refuse to believe they can get away with blood transfusions in 2017. They still might have 5-6 years ago (remember Contador's plasticized blood while clenbuteroling), but now???
If they can, this means all top guys are doing it to "level the field", just like in Armstrong's era.

Again, so sad for the sport :(
What’s sad , I mean doping is rife, always has been. It’s not as though cycling has had some kind of clean era . Plenty of cyclists have been busted since Armstrong confessed. Mid peloton riders ,that tells you that they are doping just to survive /compete at that level. I mean all these mid peloton riders caught doping have been
getting the as#* kicked by the likes of Froome etc . So there is no way Froome and the rest are clean just not possible.

You can microdose EPO till it comes out of your ears and you won’t get caught .it makes a complete mockery Of the bio passport. There’s plenty ways to mask drugs and a lot of athletes who train abroad have plenty of time to clear their system if they happen to be out training when MR dope tester knocks at the door.
Clenbuterol is the go to drug to shed sh** loads of weight and keeping all your power.
How do you think some of these riders are so skinny yet put out a lot of power . Go starve yourself like they do and you wouldn’t be able to get out of bed take some clen and you will be better than fine.
It’s time just to stop wasting money and resources on this . Let them dope and get on with it. Athletes are not going to stop and the playing field will never be even . That’s some kind of romantic fantasy some fans have. Sport is all about money and power these days and used for a political ageneda.

Brailsford must have pis**ed someone off . Because Sky are the big boys / commercial value of pro cycling . Just like the UCI ignoring Armstrong’s positive test ( saddle sores :lol: ), you don’t mess with your biggest asset.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:36 am 
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: France
mattr wrote:
bilwit wrote:
What's more disturbing is that it took a media leak for this to come out
Yup, despite all the changes and prosecutions/dismissals of lab employees and problems with trial by media, we're still getting leaks.

This needs to be stopped.
I know, the truth hurts, we need to stamp out the truth and keep believing!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:16 am 
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Posts: 838
Location: Netherlands
stormur wrote:
I watch carefully cyclocross scene. And wonder WHEN guy who's winning everything recently will be catched... Other guy ( which is just behind him ) has already issues with some videos showing his bike "technological advantage"... After changing the brand ... he's not so fast anymore ;)
You mean that guy who's been winning almost everything since he started? There has been a junior CX season where VD Poel won every race he started. He's been Junior World road and CX champion and the youngest ever world CX champion, he has always been at the top ranks. Ofcourse we never know who rides 100% clean, but VD Poel has been pretty consistent with his level. He only had bad luck the last two years where a knee injury kept him out of a good season preparation. This year he had no injuries + he got V Aert betting on two horses (combining a CX season with road preparation) and this is the result. The brand change didn't change much for V Aert, he became world champion on a Felt last year. It's just a fresh VD Poel (who has always been better) without injuries and him trying combining two disciplines.

I believe to be an top athlete (in any field of sports) you are always playing in the grey area, you ask the maximum of your body and there is always a price to pay for that.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:27 pm
Posts: 255
stormur wrote:
if you can't breath, you're sick/disabled. There are plenty of opportunities for disabled people, like paraolympics for example... Leave professional sport for healthy people. But seriously ; border between being or not allowed for substances increasing performance is way to thin. It makes plenty of room for cheating.

I watch carefully cyclocross scene. And wonder WHEN guy who's winning everything recently will be catched... Other guy ( which is just behind him ) has already issues with some videos showing his bike "technological advantage"... After changing the brand ... he's not so fast anymore ;)
Are you serious? When I raced in the 1970s and 80s with asthma there were no paralympics, so you're saying I shouldn't have raced? I can tell you that the days I won races (local time-trials) were the days when I wasn't suffering asthma attacks and wasn't taking Salbutamol The days when I was suffering an attack I won nothing Salbutamol or not.


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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:24 pm 


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