Interesting idea that nobody followed?

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

Moderators: robbosmans, Moderator Team

User avatar
kgt
Posts: 8749
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

Although Tufo tires rate among the worst in terms of ride quality their 'clincher-tubular' design looked like an interesting idea. Any opinion why no other company tried to do something similar? Is it just because it is patended or are there other reasons? Are tubeless tires better anyway?

Image

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8612
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

I had some of these years ago. The reason they're not around is because instead of combining the best of both worlds they combine the worst of both. The reason you want to ride a tubular is primarily for handling and ride quality. The downside of the tubular is its inconvenience compared to a clincher/tube setup. So, with these tires, as soon as you mount them on top of the two "walls" that define a clincher, you've lost the unconstrained roundness that lets a tubular conform to the road in hard turns etc. in effect making it handle like a clincher. Then, if you puncture, they have all the hassles of a tubular. Also, unlike a tubular, they lack the safety factor of having the tire actually glued to the rim. I was stupid back then and fell for whatever marketing hype they were spewing. The marketing spin was of course "the ride quality of a tubular with the convenience of a clincher". If I'd have just sat back and thought about that for a second I would have realized how stupid it was. It was the "aero spin" of yesteryear. Ha. But I only rode them a couple of times before realizing the error of my ways. Live and learn.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8612
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

I think much the same way about the "tubeless" road tires today. You still need to carry a spare tube with you, since sealant doesn't always work. But stuffing a spare tube into a sealant filled tire is always fun to watch and can be real messy. Then you have the mess of removing the tube when you get home and patching the tire if the sealant didn't work. I really don't get it. I see them going the way of the Dodo eventually as well. I think most tire manufacturers think along those lines as well, otherwise they'd all be on board with them now and producing them. But that's not the case, is it.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 5777
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

Good tubeless tyres work Calnago, the bad ones let you down and then you have the situation you describe. I have been riding on them all year and no issues. I dont even bother carrying a spare tube anymore. I used to be a puncture king but that is no longer the case.

In a race recently I got a small hole in my rear IRC tubeless tyre it sealed by itself and I finished the race. The tyre is still fine I have not had to patch it. If I had been using a clincher with a tube I would have been out of the race. I commute on tubeless road tyres every day without issue. The tubeless experience is very tyre dependent. I was going to give up on tubeless road tyres until someone in the U.K put me onto IRC as I was having a rubbish time with other tyres. So before you judge the system it might be worth trying it first.

OutOfBreath
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:41 pm

by OutOfBreath

What about air loss in the event of a puncture. In the MTB world with the lower pressure and higher volume it doesn't matter that much and I can see how it is effective but vith the low volume and high pressure of road tires don't they lose too much pressure before sealant does it's job?

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8612
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

@bm0p700f: I'm gald you've found something that works to your satisfaction. I don't use them personally, jsut installed them for others etc., and get reports of so and so trying to fix their tubeless flat on the road. Just seems like a pain in the ass that can be avoided with clinchers so why not. Plus, the tire selection is very limited and doesn't seem like that's changing anytime soon either. And they certainly don't ride like a tubular, because they still have to rely on the two "walls" of the clincher rim that I described in my previous post, rendering them much more like clinchers than a tubular. Very happy with running tubulars all the time, thank you. And if I did decided not to use tubulars I'd go with clinchers over tubeless simply because I think the selection is far greater and there are some very good clinchers out there to choose from. So tubeless is just not for me.

And the point that @OutOfBreath makes about the differences between using tubeless for mtn versus road is valid as well.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

User avatar
Kayrehn
Posts: 1776
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:06 pm

by Kayrehn

I'm using the Tufo tubulars right now - the only advantage seems to be the weight savings due to the lack of inner tube, but it's definitely stiffer than the Vittoria Graphene ones, so not fantastic if you want a nice tubular road feel.

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8612
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Not talking about tubulars in the traditional sense here. We're talking about a tire Tufo had years ago which was kind of a tubular that you mounted on a clincher rim. Look closely at the pic in the first post of this thread.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

User avatar
Tinea Pedis
Posts: 8615
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:08 am
Contact:

by Tinea Pedis

Calnago wrote: It was the "aero spin" of yesteryear.

Seems I missed the part where aero doesn't work (just to complete your narrative) :wink:

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8612
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Ha! Glad you didn't miss that Tinea. Never said aero doesn't work, but it sure gets spun around a lot.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

spud
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:52 am

by spud

this design will squirm like hell on the rim, producing a huge amount of rolling resistance. There's a reason nobody else uses it.

User avatar
Calnago
In Memoriam
Posts: 8612
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

It's not still around is it?
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

beanbiken
Posts: 828
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Location: Great Southern Land

by beanbiken

Calnago wrote:It's not still around is it?


Believe so. http://www.wiggle.com.au/tufo-c-hi-comp ... cher-tyre/
BB

Coffee & carbon

mattr
Posts: 4671
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Location: The Grim North.

by mattr

Yeah, you can still get them. One of our local shops had them in a couple of years ago. Don't think they sold any as the last time i saw them they were down to 100 or 120 SEK each (about €12-14).

I can remember the first time they were being pushed, maybe 20 years ago. The only shop locally that was stocking them ended up clearing all his stock out at something like £15 a pair as he couldn't sell them.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



User avatar
Kayrehn
Posts: 1776
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:06 pm

by Kayrehn

Calnago wrote:Not talking about tubulars in the traditional sense here. We're talking about a tire Tufo had years ago which was kind of a tubular that you mounted on a clincher rim. Look closely at the pic in the first post of this thread.

Actually my point is that not only does it missed the point as clincher tires, the tubular form also doesn't confer the usual benefits of tubulars. But I'm using it for weight savings so...

Post Reply