Cyclist killed in crash while descending Hawthorne Blvd

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lrdunc
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by lrdunc

Really sad story here: http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/bicyclist-hit-by-moving-truck-killed-rancho-palos-verdes-371463891.html

Here's where it happened:

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I ride in this area of Palos Verdes nearly every other weekend. It's pretty easy to hit 50mph when descending this section of Hawthorne Blvd. Here's one example of when I did this segment last month:

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Anyway, from what I can gather, the cyclist was descending in the bike lane...when the light turned green at Vallon (the side street off of Hawthorne Blvd), the moving truck began to turn right and the cyclist crashed into the truck (sandwiched between the curb on the right and the truck on the left)...is that the impression everyone else has?

Can anyone tell what sort of bike it was?

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If anyone has done this descent before, you would know that it's not a technical one - the street is wide and the turns are long and sweeping. That said, I don't think it's safe at all to take it at speed while in the bike lane. I believe the speed limit on this section is 45mph. When descending at the speed limit, I will almost always take the entire lane to myself (this section of road has two lanes, both of which are very wide, plus additional segments of lanes from which left and / or right turns are made at intersections).

Really curious to get everyone's take on this. Very sad story in any event.

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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

I take the full lane when descending, regardless of what road I'm on, so long as I can match the speed limit or near it easily. If I can't get up to that speed I tend to take 1/3 of the lane (just off center).
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lrdunc
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by lrdunc

^ That's what I try to do as well. Especially if the descent is at all technical (or at least has tighter turns). There are many descents like this in the Palos Verdes area. I never take up the lane just to take up the lane, but I'm also not about to get run off the road or sandwiched on the shoulder by (what in many cases is) an unsafe driver.

In this particular case, it seems like (i) the cyclist was descending at speed (article said ~ 45mph); (ii) down the road (at the cross street, Vallon), the moving truck was in the right hand traffic lane waiting at the red light; (iii) some time before the cyclist got to the intersection, the light turned green; (iv) when the light turned green, the moving truck began to make a right hand turn onto the cross street; (v) in the bike lane and unable to stop in time, the cyclist was sandwiched between the curb (on the right) and the moving truck (on the left) and crashed into the moving truck. The news report went on to say that the cyclist was dragged under the truck for some distance :cry:

If that is in fact what happened, I'm really surprised as this seems like an incredible risk to take. I haven't found anything saying that the moving truck did or did not have its right turn signal on as the cyclist was approaching. Should the van have been using its turn signal? Of course. But even if the truck driver did not have a turn signal on (and even if the truck was intending to go straight through the intersection rather than turning right onto the side street), I NEVER would have tried to split that gap between the truck and the curb (in the bike lane).

When approaching the intersection / stopped truck, I would have looked back to see if there was any oncoming traffic. If there wasn't any, and it was safe to move over, I would have gone all the way into the left traffic lane and passed the truck that way. If there was traffic coming down the hill behind me and it wasn't safe to take the entire left traffic lane, I would have slowed all the way down well behind the truck and waiting to get a crystal clear picture of where it was going.

I don't mean to criticize the guy as this is a tragic event any way you slice it, but it does seem like this was caused by either inexperience / last-second nerves or by poor judgment.

nohands
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by nohands

trucks in general already have to take wide turns. in this case, turning into a narrow street would probably require the truck to have a bit more clearance on its right side (thus more centered) in order to make the turn. it could be the case that the cyclist thought there was enough clearance and he could beat the truck.

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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

It's sad this happened.

Personally? We're vehicles, and where a person would operate their vehicle on the right-side (as opposed to the UK/Japan/Australia/etc where they operate on the left), always pass on the left. If there are vehicles ahead stopped at a red and the light turns green as I approach, I move as if I'm passing on the left... and then move into the center of the lane or wherever once faster vehicles pass me or I pass them.

As much as roadies, even accomplished racers, think they know how to ride in the streets properly - the majority don't at all. Assumptions of how to ride in traffic not only lead to personal safety issues, they make all cyclists look bad in the eyes of motorists.

There are FREE (yes, FREE!) 1/2 day "urban riding" classes that are run by local advocacy orgs, I wish it was a requirement that every rider take it. Even if there is some 'adaptation' as a person gets more advanced, knowing the basics instead of assuming you know the basics will save your life.
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beeatnik
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by beeatnik

Sad news.

And in total agreement about taking a whole lane on fast urban descents. That or half the speed limit.

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VeloScaper
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by VeloScaper

Truck driver probably didn't have his turn signal on and has previously mentioned was father away from the right curb than normal to give him more room to make the right turn. So the extra space and no turn signal made going by the truck seem safe.

Are the skid marks dried blood? How did he get dragged?

Marin
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by Marin

Maybe the truck even moved to the left to have enough space for the right turn, cyclist thought the gap was getting even wider and didn't slow down, then the truck started the turn, and there was no time left to slow down.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

^this is the most common behavior amongst truck/bus drivers. they move to the left, without signaling it in any way, then take their big turn right. I've been cornered like this at least few times, although not on a fast descent. same goes with overtaking - they have this weird tendency to turn right just seconds after passing you by. so with trucks or buses, I never EVER pass them on their right, unless they're jammed in a traffic. they don't expect me to be there, plus their mirrors are situated above my head. it's another way round with passenger cars - they like to make those sudden moves when stuck to try to see what's going on. nevertheless when it comes to passing on the right, despite a bike line, it's like a russian roulette. I'd rather get horned at taking the middle of the road to pass the traffic or slow vehicles than get killed by a dumbass who doesn't know how use his mirrors.
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by Butcher

prendrefeu wrote:Personally? We're vehicles, and where a person would operate their vehicle on the right-side (as opposed to the UK/Japan/Australia/etc where they operate on the left), always pass on the left. If there are vehicles ahead stopped at a red and the light turns green as I approach, I move as if I'm passing on the left... and then move into the center of the lane or wherever once faster vehicles pass me or I pass them.


This. Tonnage rules and we all should be aware of that. It does not matter if your dead who's right or wrong. I will break any rule if it is the safe thing to do.

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lrdunc
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by lrdunc

tymon_tm wrote:^this is the most common behavior amongst truck/bus drivers. they move to the left, without signaling it in any way, then take their big turn right. I've been cornered like this at least few times, although not on a fast descent. same goes with overtaking - they have this weird tendency to turn right just seconds after passing you by. so with trucks or buses, I never EVER pass them on their right, unless they're jammed in a traffic. they don't expect me to be there, plus their mirrors are situated above my head. it's another way round with passenger cars - they like to make those sudden moves when stuck to try to see what's going on. nevertheless when it comes to passing on the right, despite a bike line, it's like a russian roulette. I'd rather get horned at taking the middle of the road to pass the traffic or slow vehicles than get killed by a dumbass who doesn't know how use his mirrors.


Completely agree with everything...especially the bold.

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by KarlC

Irdunc thanks for posting this, I'm new to this sport and I'm sure more daring than I should be at times. I really enjoy going fast and don't shy away from a fast paced descent. Some popular ones by me are around Mt Soledad and Torrey Pines, both can have heavy traffic at times and I would not normally take the Car lane even thought I may be traveling faster than a Car. I can now see how I should be taking the Car lane at these speeds.

Thanks again to all how posted on this thread, you have given me a lot to think about.
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kode54
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by kode54

and the driver isn't at fault? i've been trapped this way...and it was a landscapers truck with trailer. they have to make a wider turn, so they veer out left before turning right. they hardly ever put their signals on or look for cyclist. a local cyclist got killed this way a few towns over. got dragged in a similar fashion. like others here...going down fast...i tend to take more space than necessary...making sure i have the room to move if need be, i.e., someone coming out of the side streets. drivers cannot judge cyclists speed...thinking that the bicycle cannot go that fast.
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MoPho
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by MoPho

The corner there is pretty blind when you are traveling at speed. The first time I did that descent I was riding with some guys who regularly did the ride and they started bombing down the hill. As I am a pretty good descender, I blasted right down with them, we got around the corner and discovered the light was red, it was a big "oh shit" moment trying to get the bike stopped from high speed. I stopped, barely, but one of the other riders who was ahead of me couldn't and had to swing up Vallon at the last second where his front tire exploded from the heat and he went down. It was pretty crazy and I was like WTH?!!! Everyone said that in years of riding that descent they never encountered a red light there :doh:
From that day on I proceeded with caution going into that corner, but I've seen 54mph on that hill.

There is no bike lane at that point, so you have to take the lane. I am not going to speculate as to who was at fault, but it looked like it was a really big truck so I am sure it was taking up a lot of the road, maybe even all three lanes, so not sure going left was an option on such short notice.

Sadly, the rider was member of my club, though I had not had the chance to meet him. :(


.

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by MRM

kode54 wrote:and the driver isn't at fault? i've been trapped this way...and it was a landscapers truck with trailer. they have to make a wider turn, so they veer out left before turning right. they hardly ever put their signals on or look for cyclist. a local cyclist got killed this way a few towns over. got dragged in a similar fashion. like others here...going down fast...i tend to take more space than necessary...making sure i have the room to move if need be, i.e., someone coming out of the side streets. drivers cannot judge cyclists speed...thinking that the bicycle cannot go that fast.

Is of secondary nature. If you're the cyclist, it won't matter to you anymore whose fault it was. It's unlikely the baviour of drivers will change dramatically any time soon. We need to make sure we are extra careful and are riding defensively in traffic or the city.

I think it's a reasonable assumption that more and more cities will become more and more bicycle friendly in the distant future. Efforts to cut down on smog and traffic will see to that. Regardless, we are in charge of our own safety. I commute every day on a bike. Most drivers are considerate and polite, but some just don't see you for whatever reason. The cyclist has to anticipate that.

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