2016 'PRO' cycling discussion.

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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Frolle
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by Frolle

Giro dell'Emilia livestream anywhere???

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kgt
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by kgt

Really guys... does anyone think that at this level one can race clean?

by Weenie


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Attermann
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by Attermann

Dez33 wrote:
Attermann wrote:http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/cykling/kyllingen-undrer-sig-over-fuglsangs-laekkede-data/6310914

Fuglsangs TUE from the leak seems like a fake one,

It's in danish :)


There's two possible scenario's, either a fabrication by fancy bear, or an administrative stuff up by UCI/WADA. I would say the second is more likely.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cancell ... ears-leak/

Seems more like fabrication :)

Bogan
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Location: Boganville, Australia

by Bogan

Nefarious86 wrote:So what defines doping? Use of legal TUEs?


Some posters here still don't get one simple thing, the TUEs were legal under the rules. I will try some other words, allowed, permitted and a very short one "Ok".

I will say this again as well, the way the TUEs are being used is probably not ethically or morally kosher, but it is within the rules. Talk to the UCI. It needs to be tightened up.
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xena
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by xena

Nefarious86 wrote:So Fancy Bear was full of shit.. Whoodauhunkit

So what defines doping? Use of legal TUEs?



But we now know about Wiggo and his perfectly timed TUE's " That is not full of shi£ "

Being able to ride faster than a known doper defines doping quite clearly . Not possible, the science shows that but you keep ignoring that FACT.

The times of the peloton have not gone back to the pre EPO days which they would.
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Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

Bogan, I'm in agreement with you, its not Kosher but its legal and they're all doing it.

Xena, Your facts are still speculation at best, till I see definitive proof such as a failled test or signed admission of cheating/activity outside the rules, TUEs dont count, then I'm happy to give the benefit of the doubt that soft pillows are the bomb :D
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xena
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by xena

Nefarious86 wrote:Bogan, I'm in agreement with you, its not Kosher but its legal and they're all doing it.

Xena, Your facts are still speculation at best, till I see definitive proof such as a failled test or signed admission of cheating/activity outside the rules, TUEs dont count, then I'm happy to give the benefit of the doubt that soft pillows are the bomb :D


Well the scientific evidence" many tests done" back up my " speculation" but your entitled to your view and I'm sure your own cycling performance will improve to the level of doped riders once you get a soft pillow or have a shower in a bus . Let's see if the BBC ask some hard questions tomorrow or back off like they did with Radcliffe. I think the latter looking at their track record.
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emcardle
Posts: 82
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by emcardle

kgt wrote:Really guys... does anyone think that at this level one can race clean?

It's naivety or nationalism to think top pros aren't doping.

xena
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by xena

emcardle wrote:
kgt wrote:Really guys... does anyone think that at this level one can race clean?

It's naivety or nationalism to think top pros aren't doping.


I salute you. Spot on. I also think that a lot of sky fans just don't want to be made to feel like fools in believing all the marginal gains BS. The same way Phil Leggett felt when Armstrong confessed
I'm English but one in particular of my friend's gets really upset when i mention any English athlete caught doping or getting away with it, yet when Bertie beat froome at the vuelta " he must be doping"
When froome beats Bertie then its " Bertie forgot to dope today" " all those Spanish riders dope" he's not usually xenophobic but when it comes to cycling he becomes a real hater. I really don't understand that way of thinking.
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emcardle
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by emcardle

xena wrote:
emcardle wrote:
kgt wrote:Really guys... does anyone think that at this level one can race clean?

It's naivety or nationalism to think top pros aren't doping.


I salute you. Spot on. I also think that a lot of sky fans just don't want to be made to feel like fools in believing all the marginal gains BS. The same way Phil Leggett felt when Armstrong confessed
I'm English but one in particular of my friend's gets really upset when i mention any English athlete caught doping or getting away with it, yet when Bertie beat froome at the vuelta " he must be doping"
When froome beats Bertie then its " Bertie forgot to dope today" " all those Spanish riders dope" he's not usually xenophobic but when it comes to cycling he becomes a real hater. I really don't understand that way of thinking.


I think is a problem with critical thinking. Sky fans are like a parody of US postal fans. The excuses are hilarious!

Bogan
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by Bogan

I don't get what you are saying. One minute it is just Sky doping and the next post it is the whole peloton. I am NOT a Sky fanboy BTW.

The so called "science" you are using, appears to me to be just a piece of flawed logic. You are assuming that because athlete A did something faster than Athelete B, where B had been caught doping, hence A must be doping as well. If this is science.........shakes head again. This is just an assumption, not science.

Having observed my son play sport when he has needed to use asthma drugs and when has not required them, their use in my perception has not made him any faster or whatever. It has just enabled him to function at the level as if he didn't have asthma. When he has bad asthma he has had massive hits of ventolin. All this does is get him back to normal quicker. Is this scientific? No, but hey about as scientific as an assumption.

Anyway, putting all this doping shit aside, have you doping fixated clean athletes noticed how many of the once upon a time regular posters have virtually disappeared from this thread since the continual flow of doping posts/rants started? Or you just don't give a shit? Is it all just about you and beating everybody over the head until they submit or leave?
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Dez33
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:02 am

by Dez33

Attermann wrote:
Dez33 wrote:
Attermann wrote:http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/cykling/kyllingen-undrer-sig-over-fuglsangs-laekkede-data/6310914

Fuglsangs TUE from the leak seems like a fake one,

It's in danish :)


There's two possible scenario's, either a fabrication by fancy bear, or an administrative stuff up by UCI/WADA. I would say the second is more likely.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cancell ... ears-leak/

Seems more like fabrication :)


Cyclingnews just re-hashed the previously linked article.

Seems the TUE (confirmed) was from way back in 2008, looks like UCI/WADA are a shambles having the TUE on the wrong document.

Dez33
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:02 am

by Dez33

Bogan wrote:
Nefarious86 wrote:So what defines doping? Use of legal TUEs?


Some posters here still don't get one simple thing, the TUEs were legal under the rules. I will try some other words, allowed, permitted and a very short one "Ok".

I will say this again as well, the way the TUEs are being used is probably not ethically or morally kosher, but it is within the rules. Talk to the UCI. It needs to be tightened up.


Well there appears to be some that are within the rules, like say Jack Bobridge. And there are others that appear to be a blatant abuse, or illegal use of the TUE process. Journalists are only writing "no rules were broken" because of GB's very strict libel laws. Vaughters succinctly sums it up.

Thing is about saying "no rules were broken" concerning TUE, is that statement only true if stated reason u garnered TUE is 100% truthful.


WADA should be opening an investigation of one person in particular.

nd2rc
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Location: Tennessee

by nd2rc

Bogan wrote:
Nefarious86 wrote:So what defines doping? Use of legal TUEs?


Some posters here still don't get one simple thing, the TUEs were legal under the rules. I will try some other words, allowed, permitted and a very short one "Ok".

I will say this again as well, the way the TUEs are being used is probably not ethically or morally kosher, but it is within the rules. Talk to the UCI. It needs to be tightened up.


Couldn't have been said better.

Xena, have you lodged a formal complaint with the UCI?

by Weenie


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xena
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by xena

Bogan wrote:I don't get what you are saying. One minute it is just Sky doping and the next post it is the whole peloton. I am NOT a Sky fanboy BTW.

The so called "science" you are using, appears to me to be just a piece of flawed logic. You are assuming that because athlete A did something faster than Athelete B, where B had been caught doping, hence A must be doping as well. If this is science.........shakes head again. This is just an assumption, not science.

Having observed my son play sport when he has needed to use asthma drugs and when has not required them, their use in my perception has not made him any faster or whatever. It has just enabled him to function at the level as if he didn't have asthma. When he has bad asthma he has had massive hits of ventolin. All this does is get him back to normal quicker. Is this scientific? No, but hey about as scientific as an assumption.

Anyway, putting all this doping shit aside, have you doping fixated clean athletes noticed how many of the once upon a time regular posters have virtually disappeared from this thread since the continual flow of doping posts/rants started? Or you just don't give a shit? Is it all just about you and beating everybody over the head until they submit or leave?


Have you noticed the other posters who post on this topic ? Have a go at them as well.

Your words "putting all this doping shit aside" When you want to you hypocritical git wizard.

Go back and take a look at the thread before you call your BS out on me. This is a big deal in pro cycling. You still posted didn't you :roll: THAT MAKES YOU A HYPOCRITE.
Take some EPO and you will fly , do some blood doping and you will fly . The science is there the testimonies , Hamilton in particular about the first time he doped was very articulate.
The difference is night and day. Times have been matched or beaten or very close just to many times to put it down to conditions. Look at the pre EPO times ? much slower. So the times should match those times , be in the same ball park but the whole peloton has not slowed down since the EPO era has started. Not all the teams are using soft pillows :lol: how are they not getting dropped ? How come we have had doping busts from mid peloton riders who were getting destroyed by the likes of Froome, Valverde etc. Just not possible. SeriousLy are you fu%%ing blind or just ignorant. " OOOHHHHH xena is angry" No xena is just telling it like it is on this digital demimonde :lol:

Your son is taking the same steroids , the same dosage as Wiggo. Wow what's his best time in the egg and spoon race " come on FFS"

Your quote "When he has bad asthma he has had massive hits of ventolin. All this does is get him back to normal quicker. Is this scientific? "
fU%% YEAH of course it is. You do know that Ventolin [ albuterol] relaxes the muscles in the airways. That's why it works. You should know WTF a drug does before you give it to your son shouldn't you?


They [pro asthma cyclists] are taking a very strong steroid. If your son was that ill he would be at home in bed. If you want to debate at least try and use your brain before you post " xena angry" No Its just a stupid comparison posted without any thought and a huge lack of insight.

If you want to attack me just attack me . Use the dark side of the force " I can feel your anger " :lol:
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