2016 'PRO' cycling discussion.

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

Moderators: robbosmans, Moderator Team

wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

xena wrote:Both great riders but Bertie has beaten the best at their best Froome has only beaten Quintana and that was due to a wind split.


Who has Contador beaten that Froome hasn't? Andy Schleck? Cadel Evans? A bus-pass qualified Armstrong?

And Froome didnt just beat Quintana to win the Tour, he beat Contador as well. Both times.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



maquisard
Posts: 3773
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

Worth pointing out that Froome was racing in the same era as Schleck and Evans. It is just that it was before he suddenly became the best climber in the world quite literally overnight when he was about to be dropped by Sky.

wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

So Froome is the new worlds worst mega-doper. And Quintana, who climbed marginally faster than him in the Tour last year is what? and Contador, who would apparently wipe the floor with him in a straight fight is what?

maquisard
Posts: 3773
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

I didn't say Froome was a doper, just that it was quite remarkable that he became the best climber in the sport overnight.

KWalker
Posts: 5722
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Location: Bay Area

by KWalker

Why don't you provide some citations- I've never seen that Sky was going to drop him and have often read that they had the most faith in him.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
Gramz
Failed Custom Bike

wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

maquisard wrote:I didn't say Froome was a doper,


Then please could you stop playing games and say it?

maquisard
Posts: 3773
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

Why would I say that, do you think he is?

wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

maquisard wrote:Why would I say that,


Because you think he's a doper.

maquisard
Posts: 3773
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

KWalker wrote:Why don't you provide some citations- I've never seen that Sky was going to drop him and have often read that they had the most faith in him.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/others ... s-ago.html

"The Mail on Sunday can reveal that on the eve of the Vuelta a España in August 2011, Brailsford told a senior official from RadioShack that Froome was among riders whose contracts were expiring and who were not in Sky’s plans for 2012."

It is also covered in his book "The Climb", some quotes here https://sub3argus.wordpress.com/2015/01 ... is-froome/

Froome talking to his agent, Alex Carera

“Alex, I don’t know if I’m going to get into the Vuelta. We need to start talking to teams now to see what my options are. Worst-case scenario, we can use those offers to try and set a benchmark for Sky in case they want to decrease the salary I am on.” At this point, I was thinking that the decrease in salary might be my best possible option. Any time Alex called Dave Brailsford to talk about my future, Alex was hearing a lot of ‘hmmmmmmms’. And some ‘ummming’. And a bit of ‘ahhhing’…..

Later, Alex would show me the texts he had been getting from Dave. Things were worse than I’d thought: ‘What has Chris done all year? He’s done nothing.’

xena
Banned
Posts: 1149
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:49 pm

by xena

wingguy wrote:
xena wrote:Both great riders but Bertie has beaten the best at their best Froome has only beaten Quintana and that was due to a wind split.


Who has Contador beaten that Froome hasn't? Andy Schleck? Cadel Evans? A bus-pass qualified Armstrong?

And Froome didnt just beat Quintana to win the Tour, he beat Contador as well. Both times.


Bertie rode the giro last year and won it.Froome did not and looking how he barely got through the last week I doubt he would have been able to finish the tour if he tried the double
Bertie in 13 was way off his best. The only comparison is 2014 and Bertie kicked his bum all year.

To those who doubt riders are doping take a look at my post a page or so earlier.
Riders are still doping. The evidence is pretty solid, go take a look.
Xena a demi god among the digital demimonde that is WW community

http://i.imgur.com/hL5v3ai.jpg

https://www.flickr.com/photos/131970499@N02/

wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

xena wrote:Bertie rode the giro last year and won it.Froome did not and looking how he barely got through the last week I doubt he would have been able to finish the tour if he tried the double
Bertie in 13 was way off his best. The only comparison is 2014 and Bertie kicked his bum all year.


What, in the Dauphine when Talansky was better than both of them and in the Vuelta when they were both returning from different injuries? How is that a fair comparison when the other years aren't? Oh wait, it's because it's the one year that supports what you're trying to say.

Look, I agree that Contador is the pre-eminent GT rider of this generation and that he's better to watch than Froome - but you're trying to make out that there's this gulf in class between the two of them when it clearly doesn't exist and it's making you sound like a fanboi.

xena
Banned
Posts: 1149
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:49 pm

by xena

Froome and wiggo showed great improvement when sky hired Leinders
Look at how wiggo went from a tt rider who could never win a big tt to champion tt rider and froomes performance gain is even more incredible ,he showed no gt winning potential at barlo or anywhere else.
Don't forget these are not young riders , the improvement cam only be down to the anobolic chicken
If you think its the soft pillows or special socks then you are only kidding yourself.
The times tell the truth , just not possible clean
Xena a demi god among the digital demimonde that is WW community

http://i.imgur.com/hL5v3ai.jpg

https://www.flickr.com/photos/131970499@N02/

xena
Banned
Posts: 1149
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:49 pm

by xena

wingguy wrote:
xena wrote:Bertie rode the giro last year and won it.Froome did not and looking how he barely got through the last week I doubt he would have been able to finish the tour if he tried the double
Bertie in 13 was way off his best. The only comparison is 2014 and Bertie kicked his bum all year.


What, in the Dauphine when Talansky was better than both of them and in the Vuelta when they were both returning from different injuries? How is that a fair comparison when the other years aren't? Oh wait, it's because it's the one year that supports what you're trying to say.

Look, I agree that Contador is the pre-eminent GT rider of this generation and that he's better to watch than Froome - but you're trying to make out that there's this gulf in class between the two of them when it clearly doesn't exist and it's making you sound like a fanboi.


They are very close but a in form Bertie is stronger over 3 weeks
2014 was the year when Bertie was flying and froome looked good as well
Its the only year for a fair comparison. Froome could have rode the giro last year but he chickened out in my opinion. He knew his best chance to win a GT was to race a tired Bertie. Smart move that almost backfired and was lucky with the wind split otherwise Quintana would have won
Xena a demi god among the digital demimonde that is WW community

http://i.imgur.com/hL5v3ai.jpg

https://www.flickr.com/photos/131970499@N02/

wingguy
Posts: 4318
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:43 pm

by wingguy

Lucky? You can't bitch about Sky trying to over-control the race on the front all the time then say they were simply lucky to be on the right side of a split peloton. When you dictate the race you give yourself more chances to be lucky.

You also can't extrapolate what would have happened in the following three weeks if that time split didn't happen. There's no guarantee that every other stage would have unfolded in the same way. Quintana may have won or he may not. The only thing we know is that he didn't and Froome did.

And finally, 'chickened out' is nonsense. No-one else was out there trying to win 2 GTs back to back except Contador, and the reason no-one else was trying to do it was because it was a stupid idea in todays pro cycling. So again, why single out Sky when every team except Tinkoff fits the same 'chicken' description?

Dez33
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:02 am

by Dez33

wingguy wrote:No-one else was out there trying to win 2 GTs back to back except Contador, and the reason no-one else was trying to do it was because it was a stupid idea in todays pro cycling.


Leaving aside all the doping aspects and the sky v tinkoff argument I don't think it's a stupid idea that cycling should be moving to having riders compete more often against each other in the big races. If that means shortening the Giro to 15-16 days instead of 23+ then so be it. I think it's ridiculous that we only see these very top GC riders compete seriously against each other once a season, sometimes twice if some decide to do the Vuelta.

Tinkoff might be a megalomaniac about a lot of things but his basic idea was right about trying to get riders to compete against each other more often.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



Locked