wingguy wrote:xena wrote:Froome was not injured any more than Bertie.
How do you know? They had two different injuries. You cannot possibly say that you know they both recovered at the same rate and were both able to carry their best form into the Vuelta. When you give Froome no credit for beating Contador siply because 'Bertie had no form' the hypocrisy is laughable.
2011 Evans would have won this tour easy, his form was incredible at that time and his climbing was as good as anyone. Just look at his results
I have, have you? His climbing wasn't as good as anyone's. He lost over two minutes in the summit finishes and won 2.30 on the TTs and 1.09 on a technical descent. Do you think he definitely would have beaten Froome in the TTs, in the mountains and on the descents?
Honestly?
A top form Schleck would have won this tour [ plenty of climbing] You seemed to have missed out Armstrong , Basso. Chicken, I could go on.All riders who at their best climb on a level above Froome. I don't know why you laugh at Rico . His climbing was incredible.
This Tour has lots of climbing but two technical TTs (which generated big time gaps) and only a few summit finishes. Again - you think Schleck is soo much stronger than Froome in the mountains that he could definitely absorb the massive time gaps that would open in the TTs? You are very optimistic, I'll give you that.
As for Basso he never finished on the podium of a GT that Contador won, Armstrong was after the comeback and wasn't only beaten by Contador, Contador never beat the Chicken, the Chicken was beating him before being chucked from the race, and yes I laugh at Ricco in a list of 'great' riders that Contador defeated. The highlight of his Palmares was the Tour of Austria (that focus of any serious race calendar) where he beat nobody, nobody, Tiago Machado and nobody. If Ricardo Ricco is a 'great' cyclist that Contador defeated then I could name 20 'great' cyclist that Froome's wiped the floor with.
Mate, your cycling history is shocking - you seriously need to do some more research!
In 2013 Froome got dropped twice in the mountains in the last week. last year Quintana destroyed him in the mountains in the last week . Those are facts
In 2013 Froome dropped everyone else in the first two weeks by more than he was dropped by anyone in the third week. In 2015 Froome destroyed Quintana by so much in the first two weeks that no-one could believe he was doing it clean, before Quintana turned the tables and gained some time in the third. And the
fact is that your claim that Froome 'always' loses time in the mountains to everyone else has only been true in 1 Tour out of 3, and by the end of this one it'll almost certainly be 1 Tour out of 4. You can't just pick and choose his bad days to prove your point and ignore the good days. It doesn't work like that. The Tour lasts 3 weeks, it's not just the last week of 3 that counts. Maybe your under the same delusion as Unzue on that count. Finally on that point, there is a little thing called strategy too. If your strategy is to smash the first half of the race you may well suffer near the end. If your strategy is to conserve for fourteen days then go nuts, you may well gain time back at the end. It's a pretty simple concept.
Froome cannot climb consistently well over 3 weeks against high calibre rivals.
Again, Kruijswijk. Seriously.
Since when has froome attacked in his tour wins from 10 km out and put the race to bed in one attack.
You're confusing riding style with effectiveness. They are two different things. Since when did Evans attack from 10km out and put a GT to bed in one ride? Never, but you still said he was awesome - so how does that work? And again, because you evidently missed it the first time, just because Froome has always won with a big team doesn't mean that he wouldn't be capable of winning without a big team. But just like Cavendish in the HTC days he's not going to give up what he's got, move to a low budget team with confused ambitions and try to win with them just to prove you wrong. Maybe he could, maybe he couldn't, but you cannot say he's incapable of it just because he's never been in a position where he's had to try.
I call it has I see it.
Yeah I know. The problem is you need glasses
Yeah I do need glasses I'm a bit short sighted
Do you really think Froome could have pulled back the Schleck attack single handed ?dragging the peloton along in a head wind and then closing him down on the last climb.? seriously. Go back and take a look at who Evans was climbing against and beating ,No offence but it was not Porte Yates etc it was Schleck ,Bertie etc climbers/ riders on a much higher level.
Did Evans win the tour ? did Evans win the WC. His results look pretty good to me and if he had not had the bad luck he had , he would have won a lot more GT's.
Did basso win the Giro? Bertie beat Chicken who then got [unfairly IMO ] pulled from the race . Froome could not have lived with those 2 on any climb . A top form Schleck is on a different level to froome in the mountains. He would have dropped him just like the way Bertie has dropped him so many times and Quintana last year as well [80 seconds
on alp d huez, 80 seconds] Schleck would certainly have not lost much time on the Mountain TT yesterday and would have had plenty time to pull back any difference from a flat TT.
Rico at his best could easily out climb Froome. He was at a different level before his bust. Gt win anyone?
I'm not picking and choosing you are . Froomes first tour win he got dropped twice in the "LAST WEEK" and do I have to mention Quintana again [ 80 seconds on one climb] yes I do.
that's my point and its true.
Froome hurt his wrist 2014, Bertie had a fracture in his leg and still has the scars on his knee this day. Who was worse off?
I think you memory is short . I don't remember those long attacks at the Vuelta to get time back from Bertie. in fact he just TT up the climbs then Bertie just took off and dropped him with ease , wanna see the video?
I have given credit to Froome for his victory's take a look , I have said countless times that he was worthy of all his tour wins. Perhaps you need glasses.
If Froome had beaten Bertie in 2014 then I would agree with some of your points but he did not he got his a%% handed to him and last year as well by Quintana in the mountains . No wind split no tour win. time gained, time lost.
"that no-one could believe he was doing it clean" You seriously think Froome is clean. Did you see the data I posted some pages back from tests done on EPO ? Obviously you did not. Go back a few pages and get a education.
We could carry this debate on for ever , we are not going to agree. 80seconds up alp d huez
