2016 'PRO' cycling discussion.

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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hna
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:26 pm
Location: Norway

by hna

Skylark wrote: This shows EPO isn't happening these days.


It most likely tells us that EPO doping isn't happening in the same way that it used to do. My assumption is that smaller micro dosages give a great effect without the danger of the blood clotting up during night time. We know that the doses they took in the 90's was much greater than what you would take in a micro dose regime.

by Weenie


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maquisard
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

I just knocked up a few spreadsheets...

Comparison by Team Classification...

Image

Then by best placed rider...

Image

Looking at the budgets it would seem that a sensible figure for a cap would be €15M, it is amazing the tiny budget some teams are operation on.

For example Ag2R in 2nd on GC have 33% the budget of Sky! By contrast the likes of Katusha punching well below their financial weight!

BdaGhisallo
Posts: 3250
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 1:38 pm

by BdaGhisallo

Dimension Data sure got their money's worth. Victory in over 25% of the road stages this year - five out of nineteen!

maquisard
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

Definitely, if Yates left Orica I would love to see him at Dimension Data, they need a GC rider

xena
Banned
Posts: 1149
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:49 pm

by xena

They can introduce budget caps but what about the perks , you know the free perks that would still give Sky a huge advantage. Yes we can pay you 300 euros a week but we will give you a big house and a Ferrari and pay for you future kids schooling etc etc .
Xena a demi god among the digital demimonde that is WW community

http://i.imgur.com/hL5v3ai.jpg

https://www.flickr.com/photos/131970499@N02/

Dez33
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:02 am

by Dez33

Skylark wrote:
kkibbler wrote:doping noob question: so what's with the running up and down the stairs?


This shows EPO isn't happening these days. Generation Z is already far removed from the topic.


It's happening, but differently.

The first change was in 97/98 when the 50% HCT rule was brought in, that stopped the need for people running up and down stairs, jumping on exercise bikes and walking around rooms in the middle of the night as they no longer had the thick blood (and risks) of a really high HCT.

Next was the passport which meant doses had to be really small but more frequent.

It (EPO) will still be going on, we know that because every now and then someone running a rookie program gets popped. The experts will still be ahead of the testers.

maquisard
Posts: 3767
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:51 pm
Location: France

by maquisard

Indeed, one of the arguments we hear all the time is that modern sport science has come on so much since the 90's that un-doped performances have surpassed doped ones. The only issue I have with that is that it makes the assumption that all doping research and science stopped in the mid 2000's. It hasn't, it has just moved on, it just takes the testers a while to catch up

dereksmalls
Posts: 2305
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:20 pm
Location: New Zealand

by dereksmalls

maquisard wrote:it just takes the testers a while to catch up


And it will always be that way I hate to say :(

dereksmalls
Posts: 2305
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:20 pm
Location: New Zealand

by dereksmalls


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Skylark
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:37 pm
Location: The Delta Flyer

by Skylark

^^ Don't be surprised. Professional journalism is full of plagiarisers. They sit there all day earning a blue collar salary for scouring known sources of information and repackaging it into something allegedly premium. Either or they're ripping you off FB.

I was one of the initial proponents for so called microdosing. From what I understand there's isn't a sophisticated nor a well organised operation going on these days. You have the one off cowboys doing their stuff in hiding and then typically getting busted. I think it's a lack of some seriousness in the sport nowadays. The outlay to 'R&D' in PEDs on a small scale personal level to experiment has just become too high these days. They have to raise the bar considerably to get over everyone else. And unlike 10 or 15 years, people have become considerably smarter through the propagation of mass media and education. They can't fool people that easily like all those many years ago.

Dez33
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:02 am

by Dez33

dereksmalls wrote:Has someone in the press been reading WW again? http://www.wsj.com/articles/does-the-tour-de-france-need-a-financial-fix-1469400837


Vaughters has been banging on about salary caps for years and WSJ is his favourite pr outlet so I would say it's driven by him. I see he managed to get in his other favourite buzzword as well, franchise.

:beerchug:

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pdlpsher1
Posts: 4013
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

Here's the Tour de France condensed into a seven minute video. It's nicely done. Viva le Tour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVESBA7VeQA&feature=youtu.be

Antoine
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 6:36 pm
Location: France

by Antoine

TurboKoo wrote:Kittel disappeared earlier due to not being able to hold the wheel. Etixx chose inside line and there was no place for him.


Kittel had some problems earlier (flat tyre and broken pedal), he was'nt happy and had to chase alone for a while (he was 1'30 back). Nobody waited for him.

Jalabert on the french TV said this effort was actually good in order to sprint later, but as usual Jalabert was wrong, Kittel didn't recover for the sprint.

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micky
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Vicenza
Contact:

by micky

maquisard wrote:I just knocked up a few spreadsheets...


Looking at the budgets it would seem that a sensible figure for a cap would be €15M, it is amazing the tiny budget some teams are operation on.

For example Ag2R in 2nd on GC have 33% the budget of Sky! By contrast the likes of Katusha punching well below their financial weight!



Remember that in professional cycling wages are often paied behind the desk, without an official bill.
Im not sure how much difference it would make, Im sure there are guys who know more than me.
I just remember when Ballan was at BMC and claimed he was promised 100.000euro for the WC title from Saronni (Lampre manager) but he still didnt get them.

by Weenie


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KB
Posts: 3967
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:32 pm
Location: HULL UK

by KB

The salary cap would have to be a voluntary agreement. In Europe it could not be enforced as it's classed as 'a restraint of trade'. Note the Bosman Rule. But it goes back further than that in English Law. A leading case (1961 I think) was the footballer George Eastham. This was in the days when there was a maximum wage in English football, which was derisory by most standards. Eastham took the FA to court and won.

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