2015 'PRO' cycling discussion

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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russianbear
Posts: 683
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:40 am

by russianbear

People criticizing Stannard's win are forgetting this quote from The Rider:

“Racing is licking your opponent's plate clean before starting on your own”

;)

by Weenie


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jooo
Posts: 1510
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:48 am

by jooo

@KWalker - Sure, Cav is extremely successful but he also didn't have heaps of great competition during his earlier years. Many of Cav's earlier wins were against Garmin/Farrar for example (or Hushovd with no lead out train) - not exactly the greatest sprint competition ever with all due respect. Compare that to Zabel, Petacchi, Cipo and McEwan who spent a fair bit of their careers racing against each other. I'd probably throw Freire into that mix too - not as prolific in GT's but still an impressive palmares.

Greipel and Kittel have matched Cav for total victories pretty well in the last couple of seasons (Sagan as well, even if people don't want to see him just as a 'sprinter'). Kristoff also hasn't done too badly for himself in the last 18 months.

The haven't locked horns that often and I know you could argue that Cav has made it to sprints where Kittel has been dropped earlier but none the less, Cav hasn't beaten Kittel in a heads up sprint in what, close to 3 years now?

lippythelion
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:56 am
Location: England

by lippythelion

pastronef wrote:Dowsett and other team mates on (non team sponsor) Zipps for Omloop

https://instagram.com/p/zsUOp_lbQ_/?modal=true
https://instagram.com/p/zruQCboLj7/?modal=true

That's Russell Downing in the first pic old chap.

Wingnut
Posts: 2196
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:41 am

by Wingnut

My point exactly jooo...KWalker you're only as good as your competition...

I'm not so sure Cavendish had the same quality in competition as the riders I mentioned previously...

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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

Wingnut wrote:I'm not so sure Cavendish had the same quality in competition as the riders I mentioned previously...

With quality like this, I still find it hard to go past him. No matter how poor his opposition may have been at times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQedKbxiuBA&t=135

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw1MHv4uDGY&t=48

And it's not like he's only just in front of most others in terms of his win tally - he's already streets ahead. With years to spare.

Frolle
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:21 pm
Location: Denmark

by Frolle

pastronef wrote:Dowsett and other team mates on (non team sponsor) Zipps for Omloop

https://instagram.com/p/zsUOp_lbQ_/?modal=true
https://instagram.com/p/zruQCboLj7/?modal=true


Team Cult had all of their bikes, wheels and equipment stolen during Haut Var this year. Maybe they haven't been able to get new equipment for all riders.

Last year they were all on Zipp wheels.

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tymon_tm
Posts: 3665
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:35 pm

by tymon_tm

KWalker wrote:
Wingnut wrote:Agree Cav best of the most recent sprinters but compared to history's best not sure...Van Poppel, Cipollini, Zabel, Petacchi, McEwan, Abdoujaparov, Maertens, Kelly etc etc...I guess you're only as good as your competition ;)


JP Van Poppel- 9 Tour stages, 22 GT stages total, 0 monuments doesn't even belong on this list.

McEwan- 24 GT stages, handful of 1 days

Zabel- 20 GT stages, 4 MSR, Amstel, Worlds Silver, lots of 1 days, EPO positive, lots of wins overall though

Petacchi- 48 GT stages, MSR, how many doping positives?

Abdoujaparov- 17 GT stages, 0 monuments, some minor stage race stages

Cipo- 57 GT stages, 1 MSR, 1 world championship, Gent-Wevel 3 times, later tested positive for EPO and had almost no one to compete with him in his early years.

Cav- 43 GT stages, 1 World championship on the road, 1 world championship on the track, 1 MSR, a bunch of semi-classics, and countless 1 week stage race stages, and still has 5-8 years left in his career. If Cav only wins 2 more GT stages a year until he retires he will easily top everyone on this list overall.


i'm sorry, but applying this logic to GT riders, we'd probably have to crown Nibali as the champ of champs... that's one hardly justified choice IMO
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez
Posts: 2147
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:21 pm
Location: around Paris

by Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez

pastronef wrote:Dowsett and other team mates on (non team sponsor) Zipps for Omloop

https://instagram.com/p/zruQCboLj7/?modal=true



Michael Carbel still slamming like he's riding a track bike or a low-pro!!

Epic stuff

Image

Image

http://instagram.com/p/rerIvKILjz/?modal=true

8) 8) 8) 8)

ultyguy
Posts: 2332
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:35 pm
Location: Geneva

by ultyguy

So when does Stijn Vandenbergh stop being Etixx donkey and start riding for himself somewhere else? He has been at the head of affairs in almost every classic for the past 2 years.

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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

When he learns how to sprint a little better.

Accelerates like the QE2.

nathanong87
Resident master of GIF
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by nathanong87

Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez wrote: Michael Carbel still slamming like he's riding a track bike or a low-pro!!


yea track dudes , blythe included, seem to like LOW LOW.

here is tom moses from JLT
Image

jooo wrote:The haven't locked horns that often and I know you could argue that Cav has made it to sprints where Kittel has been dropped earlier but none the less, Cav hasn't beaten Kittel in a heads up sprint in what, close to 3 years now?


yea but kittel isn't going to win some of the non-gt races that cav has already won in his career in my opinion....the types of victories that cavendish has , is the impressive part to me.

cav's finish when he beat gilbert pointing up hill comes to mind

when cav bridged up to the saxo - belkin group when the split happened in 2013 and in TDF , that was also very impressive.

also when he won nationals, he was putting sky homies in the hurt locker on climbs with millar.
Image


maybe I'm in a boat by myself but i 'respect' sprinters who get through a GT a little more than sprinters pulling out of the race after the first 6 flat days. Cipo is 'cool' yea... but he never attempted to get to the end, which i always felt 'eh' about.

Antoine
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 6:36 pm
Location: France

by Antoine

Kittel has to share objectives with Degenkolb and Mezgec, so he's not going for the classics or the harder TDF stages.

He's also taking his time in his career unlike others riders like D.Van Poppel or B.Coquard.

He probably could do well in Milan-San Remo and Paris-Roubaix.

HillRPete
Posts: 2284
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:08 am
Location: Pedal Square

by HillRPete

nathanong87 wrote:yea track dudes , blythe included, seem to like LOW LOW.

Don't want to get into a fit discussion, but there is such a thing as too low. Even for pros. When the forearms are horizontal(-ish) there's less drag than when they're straight(-ish) down.

Then again one sees Stannard dropping Boonen from the hoods. So maybe this is his optimised position.

spud
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:52 am

by spud

^ +1 : hoods for low drag/relatively steady state, drops for sprinting

by Weenie


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nathanong87
Resident master of GIF
Posts: 3405
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:44 am
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by nathanong87

HillRPete wrote:
nathanong87 wrote:yea track dudes , blythe included, seem to like LOW LOW.

Don't want to get into a fit discussion, but there is such a thing as too low. Even for pros. When the forearms are horizontal(-ish) there's less drag than when they're straight(-ish) down.

Then again one sees Stannard dropping Boonen from the hoods. So maybe this is his optimised position.


Yea i agree, fit discussion is pretty bad. From my extensive research of google images and eurosport high definition feeds for usage during my own merckx-style time trial case study, I've come to the conclusion fit and pro fit discussion seems like a wash when it comes to road racing (time trialing spaceships is different). There are just as many pictures of phinney, fabian, boonen, wiggins in their drops riding hella fast and other pictures of dudes riding hoods (probably wiggins not as much). Convinced that comfort for them > aero faff. In an ideal world and ideal windtunnel, sure #aeroiseverything, but the extreme pole to it is like.... riding cobbles on tops vs flat back 90deg arm hood style. If a pro (or any of us) can't ride in the aero position, what good is it? With unlimited time, unlimited watts, and unlimited flexibility then sure, but comfort and going fast is whats important.... Noone cares about the dude finishing 50th place , who 'rode on hoods' the whole race. The trend to pro fits, is no trend. So i defer to who's riding the illest bicycles and winning races.

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