2015 'PRO' cycling discussion

[nathanong87]

[DanW]

Truth is the answer is still probably "just Lance"

[ultyguy]

one of the funniest one's I heard by the roadside in Richmond 'T-J van what'shisnuts'

[KWalker]

can we start a women's racing or equality in cycling thread? leave this one for interesting pro cycling stuff?

Cycling is trying to solve a problem that is endemic across the sporting world and almost always will be. I can't say I've seen a single exciting women's amateur race especially when the criterium average speeds are on par or slower than the cat 4/5 men. Its good that efforts to get women involved are working, but at the top level it comes down to ROI for advertising dollars and even then cycling is pretty terrible. If you're Deloitte would you spend millions on Dimension Data and Cavendish (two entities that have massive global appeal and impression), or Lululemon-Velocio-whatever it is?

[prendrefeu]

Really?

This is 'PRO' cycling discussion.
There are people who are PROfessional racers. This is a discussion of their sport. Don't want to discuss interesting aspects of the PROfessional sport? Want to discriminate and segregate? Really?

So if we discuss cyclocross you want to drop that to a separate thread?
What about MTB ? Also Pro. You do know that many of the top racers in the Road discipline came over from MTB?
I wonder if a few of us would bring up discussion of PROfessional cycling from the non-European Tour. I know I would have some things to share, and a few others here as well... want to separate and segregate those as well?

Not interested in a discussion about an aspect of PROcycling in the PRO cycling discussion thread? Move onto to a post which appeals to you.

[SLCBrandon]

^you seem to be really emotionally invested into this. Not at all meant as a knock, just an observation. My previous post wasn't meant as an anti-womens cycling post but you seemed to get really angry with it. I hope it all works out the way you want it too. Seriously.

[prendrefeu]

Good observation.

I'm not personally invested in women's cycling per se. What I am invested in, philosophically, is breaking away from closed-mindedness (I honestly couldn't find a best phrase/word for this at the moment). So women's cycling falls into this. So does MTB, cyclocross and other discussions. So does other posts, elsewhere, mentioning how many parts of what a person rides most likely came from China so why the heck are people still referring to small-brand or no-brand items as "Chinese" when, really, even most major brands are produced in China or Taiwan.

Heck, I'm even working on a project that I want to fund via Kickstarter to challenge the closed-mindedness of how the Olympics are covered by major media outlets (not just cycling events).

It's why I prefer WW over the other cycling discussion arenas because it tends to be more international. It isn't just about road (although heavily weighted towards it). It isn't just about riding in the United States. The community here comes from all sorts of backgrounds: geographic, cultural, economic, language... and it's a great place to be exposed to and learn about different perspectives on things.

So there's the personal investment in it. Quite an astute observation!

[jooo]

You do know that many of the top racers in the Road discipline came over from MTB?

Nah, can you name the current pro's who came from MTB as their primary discipline?

[plpete]

Ryder Hesjedal and Cuddles (retired) come to mind easily. Also, the young Joe Dombrowski started out in MTB.

[Rob81]

Nah, can you name the current pro's who came from MTB as their primary discipline?

for example the "MVP" -if I can use this term- of this week, the "exceptional" Rosa.
Superstrong on the Superga, then Sunday/yesterday pulling after 200K and yet the best on the Civiglio, even better than captain Nibali, but he had to do his duties.

Anyway Astana "works"

[erik$]

There is also this Peter something, don't remember his surname. Won the junior worlds xc mtb in 2008.

[prendrefeu]

Hi Jooo.



Hi Jooo.


Hi Jooo.


Hi Jooo, can I play too? Might not be MTB, but I like to go around in elaborate circles for short distances and have to run nobby tires.


Sup Jooo. Let's get a beer.


Hi Jooo, do you mind if I come over from track?

[prendrefeu]

Nah, can you name the current pro's who came from MTB as their primary discipline?

for example the "MVP" -if I can use this term- of this week, the "exceptional" Rosa.
Superstrong on the Superga, then Sunday/yesterday pulling after 200K and yet the best on the Civiglio, even better than captain Nibali, but he had to do his duties.

Anyway Astana "works"

Diego Rosa could be someone to pay attention to in the coming years. Yikes he's good!

[Tinea Pedis]

You do know that many of the top racers in the Road discipline came over from MTB?

Nah, can you name the current pro's who came from MTB as their primary discipline?

Hi Jooo.

I thought it was pretty obvious he was being sarcastic.

Just sayin. We could have done without the pictures.

[tymon_tm]

Guys, remember the WNBA? Aside from women's tennis and some women's track and field events, the level just isn't the same which means that its not as entertaining to watch. The women's world RR was pretty ridiculous if you think about it and largely because Armistead and a few others are just so much better than most other women. The gap is huge and probably narrowing as more women become involved, but she literally pulled, attacked on the hardest hill, pulled some more, then sat there and looked at people who had no chance at beating her and won. It was more of "how is she going to screw this up" than a nail biting showdown of the best of the best in the last 5km of the race.

Meanwhile, the breaks never got much of a leash, none of the national teams seemed to actually be able to work as a team and there was really nothing memorable.

I watched a few women's races this year to try to be more open minded or knowledgeable about how they tend to play out. Personally I never felt that what I was able to watch was really worth watching. In specific I remember a rider attacking and another bridging up to her by coasting. Coasting. Unable to find the GIF at the moment. A few of the women are so damn good that they make it not much of a contest, but on TV you aren't really able to look at w/kg or any stats so that becomes sort of irrelevant. Mostly the teams seemed to not really have the same level of strategy and tactics and when they did it was usually something really blatant such as blocking or perhaps organizing a bit while pulling.

Hopefully it improves, but cycling is definitely in a period in which money isn't really increasing and for good reason in many cases. Sponsors want visibility and they're not going to get that through women's racing.

KW, you know that following your line of thought one could say it's completely pointless for white (caucasian) athletes to compete with black folks on track - they're too slow!

you seem to be a really intelligent pal, but now it looks as if you were trying to say proffesional sport is no place for a women. like they're not fit to compete, like it's just their whim to try to imitate us, men. the true gladiators! arrgh! woman, go and make me some pie!

I'm probably exaggerating right now (I mos def am), but the differences you talk about, they have to be there. it's natural for god sake. and they are, sometimes more apparent, sometimes not. tennis is a good example of a discipline where women are at a completely different level, but no one will claim it's BS cause men hit harder and faster. it's similar case with swimming, athletics. skiing. volleyball. handball. damn, any discipline you pick. their fans accepted women long time ago. so why can't we, cycling fans, embrace women's racing as well? because they're not fast enough? really?

but, to put it this way - does it really matter, entertainment-wise, whether the riders do, say, 15 or 20 kmh up the ascent? whether their average speed is 45 or 38? no, what matters is the competitiveness amongst them, the attacks, the battle. you want to see athletes giving it all, that's what makes it exciting. the sex is irrelevant.

even if it doesn't appeal to you, maybe this will - the wellbeing of cycling is in our best interest, isn't it. if we indend it to grow, both as a sport spectacle and a business, how can we omitt the whole segment of potential recipents of such development. also from a sponsor's perspective, if you could target a wider spectrum of market doing basically same stuff and spending nearly same amount of money (because right now women's cycling's cheap as hell to run) - wouldn't you?

like Prend wrote ~2 pages back, it's not like demand creates itself. people didn't wake up one day all of a sudden desiring smartphones, just like they don't probably feel the urgency to see another women's road race. but I've no doubt the market potential is there. I've no data to support this, but there are more and more gals riding, and I mean - really riding, not commuting or having fun with friends once a month when it's sunny and warm. one look at any given manufacturer's range of bikes will tell you, women are becoming the client to fight for. and that should ring a bell, if cycling as a leisure activity and an amateur sport is gaining on popularity, where the hell is proffesional cycling in all of that?

so the question is: why aren't sponsor interested. the answer's more than obvious - there's nothing to invest in. if men's cycling is a mess, which it is, then women's cycling is a gutter. there's a constant debate how to reform (men's) pro cycling. it's a shame really these talks don't even mention women's cycling one bit. the calendar lacks any significant events that would even remotely match their 'men' equivalents. I get it's a hustle to create something from scratch, but then - why not co-run those events with men's races. wouldn't it be cool if at least few major races were being ridden by both men and women? gals could go first and do the second half of the course. since the route is there, planned and secured, the staff's there too, fans are waiting, tv crew's filming - the whole circus's ready. fans would freakin love that.

but we're stuck in debate on the issue of "performance". "race craft". well, race craft my rear end. it's a pity there are no gals here on WW, I'm sure they would do a better job justifying the need to bring women's cycling onto the surface. as a guy I'll say this - I care for women's sport, because I care for women. I like them active, fit, healthy and - OMG - good looking. I suppose every heterosexual guy does. or should do at least. I also like them independent and free, and sport gives you that sense of freedom and empowers you to push the boundaries even further. I also like them positive, self aware and self confident. guess what, you can achieve all that through sport. I like gals who have real and different hobbys, and sport is one heck of a real hobby. your GF or wife grumbles everytime you go riding or spend half a day watching a bunch of guys smelling each other's butts? go and show her that women do that too...

...but that one you can not really do.


and that's the point. we might differ as to whether we like this or that race, whether we enjoy that sort of riding or maybe something completely different. I loved women's WC RR, you KW, didn't. I loved, say, 7th stage of Giro, you didn't. does that mean the 7th stage of Giro has no place in cycling?