2015 'PRO' cycling discussion

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Tapeworm
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by Tapeworm

tymon_tm wrote:no potential GT winner should be left out without his WHOLE team assisting him on his way back to the group. the Armstrong reference, although seems legit, isn't quite based on facts as.. he's never had such issues, has he. USPS was always up front, no crashes, no flats in crucial moments, at least nothing I can recall. Lance was lucky, that's for sure, but he and the whole team made the effort to ensure his luck stays with him too. Porte and SKY - not so much I'm affraid.


I am starting to see shades of Cadel's situation all over again. I wonder if Porte will remain with Sky at the end of contract.
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
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MisterNoChain
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by MisterNoChain

lippythelion wrote:Leopold Konig came across the line on his own about a 100 metres in front of Porte instead of dropping back to help him. For all Sky's success there appears to be little, if any team spirit.

The same thing happened in the stage to Forli. Konig way ahead of Porte, Nieve and Kiryienka 15 seconds ahead of Porte ... their must be something seriously wrong inside that team. It's like the riders dont believe in Porte and the managers arent able to make the riders believe in Porte.

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53x12
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by 53x12

wingguy wrote:
tranzformer wrote:Contador sure made the effort to minimalist his time lost. Looked like he was putting in a full effort all the way to the finish line. Porte looked like he was out on a lesiure ride with his mates and didn't give a damn. Might as well drop out with that attitude.


How closely were you watching? The bike he got from a teammate was so big he could only ride it standing on the pedals with his arse in front of the saddle. How fast do you think you could go on that setup?


And Tosatto is 5cm taller than Contador. Didn't stop Contador from going all out to try and minimalize the time lost. Having a taller saddle should have been good motivation for Porte to sprint the rest of the way to the finish line, instead of riding a sportif ride with some mates at a snails pace.


By the end of this Giro, Porte will be the guy living in a van (motor home) down by the river.

http://youtu.be/x_9boCwjbZU
"Marginal gains are the only gains when all that's left to gain is in the margins."

wingguy
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by wingguy

LeDuke wrote:It's crazy to me that his bike was so bad off that he had to swap to Kyrienka's bike, a dude who is 11cm taller than him.

Meanwhile, he rode, very slowly, to the finish, with several other similar sized teammates in sight. Seriously?


Who? Eisel is the same size as Kyrienka, Konig is closer but still significantly taller than Porte - and at this stage does anyone know if Konig had the same pedals on his bike. I know he's used speedplays before, does he still have those while Porte is on SPD-SL?

Just saying there are a few other factors out there before you can come to a firm conclusion that they're all idiots who don't give a shit :roll:

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Tapeworm
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by Tapeworm

nathanong87 wrote:speaking of porte tt

anyone notice or maybe took note of riders this year going higher up with position, and or potentially wide stance arm pads? im sure teams have the tech to do all the aero testing they want, but neat 'change' i guess. Another is sagan TOC. Maybe because specialized doesn't give him a ultra custom long TT tt bike? (maybe that was a thing for his old slice?). The wide arm stance i notice in indoor track pursuit and stuff.


As has been covered above the variations in position have seen some trends come and go, and others be more widely adopted.

Given their resources (ie: having their own wind tunnel) I would look closely to the Specialized-sponsored riders and teams like Movistar who work closely with the Drag2Zero crowd (Simon Smart et al). The ERO Sports guys using Alphamantis are getting some interesting findings too.

From someone in the field the saying was: "Aerodyamics is a tricky she-bitch-goddess of unpredictability." Whilst a frame is aero in isolation or with a dummy, change the wheel and the air flows differently. And some things are counter-intuitive, like rough surfaces being more aero than smooth... in certain places, and like setting up the bars higher (but then hands block airflow to saddle, open up hip angle etc). And, I think we have discussed the booties recently - not all at automatically aero, the form factor of the shoes is highly important as well as the bootie material itself.

Personally I tried the high "twin-towers" bars. It was pretty good, but the more "Martin-esque" curved back (thanks kyphosis!) low bars and narrow arms seems to be really fast... *for me*. One of the best uses of a power meter - dialling in the position.
"Physiology is all just propaganda and lies... all waiting to be disproven by the next study."
"I'm not a real doctor; But I am a real worm; I am an actual worm." - TMBG

hasbeen
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by hasbeen

53x12 wrote:By the end of this Giro, Porte will be the guy living in a van (motor home) down by the river.


thats hilarious. :lol:
Astana is the new Gewiss. However so was Sky.
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KWalker
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by KWalker

I like how people think that the team that selectively masterminded an ultra secret doping program to win the Tour with Wiggo and to a lesser extent Froome is also the same group of turds that can't figure out a bike switch and who are too unorganized to shepherd their leader. Its all a big conspiracy so that we think they're human before Froome dominates the Tour and Sky sweeps the podium.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
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Bely
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by Bely

Was truly disappointed with the lack of fighting spirit from Porte. That shouldn't be the mentality of a leader of a top top PRO team with one of the largest budgets of not the largest budget. There was no fighting spirit. The difference between 2 leaders in 2 different teams was night and day in yesterday's stage!


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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

KWalker wrote:I like how people think that the team that selectively masterminded an ultra secret doping program to win the Tour with Wiggo and to a lesser extent Froome is also the same group of turds that can't figure out a bike switch and who are too unorganized to shepherd their leader. Its all a big conspiracy so that we think they're human before Froome dominates the Tour and Sky sweeps the podium.


well, does one thing exclude the other? being good at, say - doping, makes you automatically a well organized team? where the hell did you take that notion from?

great empires have fallen, and so can a team of nine cyclists and some staff, who maybe don't like each other very much, or perhaps have some other issues, you know like 'normal' employees have in their work environment? and things just start to fall apart when crap piles up - why, we'll never know, but it's perfectly evident something is going on. maybe it's Porte, maybe it's the manager, maybe the masseurs turn riders against each other. who knows! :noidea:
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petepeterson
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by petepeterson

Watching today's stage I couldn't believe Porte wasn't riding harder. It's too bad if his mental elastic snapped. I think he could take back a bunch of time over a 60k TT but maybe the motivation required to do so is done. Not a Sky hater but you have to look at where porte has lost time and ask if they could have done a better job of protecting him. Even if they all hated him, Cadel would have had his team around him drilling it on the front to stay safe.

Looks like some neat totally unplanned outfits and sunnies on the thereabouts!

NealH
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by NealH

53x12 wrote:
wingguy wrote:
tranzformer wrote:Contador sure made the effort to minimalist his time lost. Looked like he was putting in a full effort all the way to the finish line. Porte looked like he was out on a lesiure ride with his mates and didn't give a damn. Might as well drop out with that attitude.


How closely were you watching? The bike he got from a teammate was so big he could only ride it standing on the pedals with his arse in front of the saddle. How fast do you think you could go on that setup?


And Tosatto is 5cm taller than Contador. Didn't stop Contador from going all out to try and minimalize the time lost. Having a taller saddle should have been good motivation for Porte to sprint the rest of the way to the finish line, instead of riding a sportif ride with some mates at a snails pace.


By the end of this Giro, Porte will be the guy living in a van (motor home) down by the river.

http://youtu.be/x_9boCwjbZU



I have never heard of isolating a team member of any athletic club or entity. I never understood giving him his own mobile home - and saying it was done to help him sleep is a joke. Isolation does not foster teamwork. In fact it does just the opposite - foster envy. You want the team to live and function together. F*** Sky and Porte. Its good to see him fall back.

Bely
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by Bely

Isolated or not - just to see Porte "give up" was disappointing. I would have loved to see more fight in a team leader...the "never say die" attitude...


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dereksmalls
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by dereksmalls

tymon_tm wrote:
LeDuke wrote:The difference between Contador and Porte is what I'm getting at.

Think what you will of Armstrong, but that dude sure as shit wouldn't have lost 2min today. Contador didn't let himself be a victim, either.


no potential GT winner should be left out without his WHOLE team assisting him on his way back to the group. the Armstrong reference, although seems legit, isn't quite based on facts as.. he's never had such issues, has he. USPS was always up front, no crashes, no flats in crucial moments, at least nothing I can recall. Lance was lucky, that's for sure, but he and the whole team made the effort to ensure his luck stays with him too. Porte and SKY - not so much I'm affraid.


Until the 2010 Tour cobbled stage and then it came crashing down, literally. (even further back you could go the 2010 Tour Of California crash)

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djconnel
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by djconnel

I think his attitude was that his only chance was for the race jury to apply "the spirit of the law" and allow the 3 km rule to apply, denying a pink jersey to an Italian and giving it to a Spaniard.

On the Astana doping: sigh. But is Contador better? He did have clear signs of plasticizer in his blood during the Clenbuterol incident in 2010, well into the bio passport years. Any reason to think Contador has cleaned up his act since? But Astana are rubbing it in everyone's face right now. It makes it difficult to care about the result.

On Sky: they've targeted the Tour over the Giro the past few years. Remember Wiggins basically checking out on the snowy descents? It's not too shocking their team isn't as excellent here. And while they dominated a few years ago the perception is that other teams have caught up.

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Bely
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by Bely

I think that as a team leader his attitude should have been "I am going to fight tooth and nail to limit my losses and hope for the best jury verdict" not "let me just roll in and hope they apply the 'spirit of the law' and not the 'letter of the law'.." That was to me disappointing.


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