2015 'PRO' cycling discussion

[planB]

Eric Wohlberg wins Thanksgiving Low-Key Hillclimb up Mt Hamilton last Thursday:

Never thought I'd see the day, but a Sudbury Cycling Club jersey has made the PRO cycling thread on Weight Weenies! Well done.

[djconnel]

Photo was linked to the website:
http://lowkeyhillclimbs/2015/week9/results.html
http://lowkeyhillclimbs/2015/week9/index.html

Climb is in San Jose, California, towards Livermore. It was freezing (0C) at the summit this year.


Guessing Eric is the fittest 50+ pro cycling team director (Optum) in the world, but that's just a guess.

[petepeterson]

There are some awesome Wolberg stories out there. Guy is a total hard ass nut job and legend. Worst guy to be in a break with. Way stronger than me and basically no draft.

[micky]

CN just quoted Ekimov on "ethics", "image" and "reputation" (re Paolini). I bet Millar (who probably doesn't even know the expression 'to party') also has some important insights. or maybe just ask Lance nevertheless, it's been 6 months or so and we still know nothing. can't Italians sweep it under the rug? doesn't Paolini care at all? WTF is going on?

As you said, why nothing after 6 months?

I remember clearly a tweet from either him or his wife 1 month after positive saying he would be back soon cleared of his position but I cant find it anymore (deleted?).

[RazorL]

Just to clear some things out about the boonen and friends cyclocross event.
It's a charity event hosted once a year to collect money for "move to improve VZW"
A lot off the riders who are participating just loan a bike from friends or a bike shop.
Jurgen VDB was on a bike from "vastgoedservice golden palace" (Wout van Aerts team)
Ridley also loans bikes to lotto soudal (demo bikes) so they don't have a choice about their groupsets.
Ridley only sells crossbikes with shimano or Sram (factory standard).

[pinoymamba]

There are some awesome Wolberg stories out there. Guy is a total hard ass nut job and legend. Worst guy to be in a break with. Way stronger than me and basically no draft.

Back I sort of on topic with disc breaks. I was descending with him last winter. A buddy of mine who works at specialized was on a disc brakes and was flying down the mountain. Eric shook his head and another person said its okay he's on disc brakes. Eric replies with "he's still on the same tires...". I laughed. He does a few local rides in the area and lives on Mt Hamilton.

[Tomstr]

Just to clear some things out about the boonen and friends cyclocross event.
It's a charity event hosted once a year to collect money for "move to improve VZW"
A lot off the riders who are participating just loan a bike from friends or a bike shop.
Jurgen VDB was on a bike from "vastgoedservice golden palace" (Wout van Aerts team)
Ridley also loans bikes to lotto soudal (demo bikes) so they don't have a choice about their groupsets.
Ridley only sells crossbikes with shimano or Sram (factory standard).

I'd like to back this up. Riders show up with what they can get or already have. It's a very nice event raising a handsome amount of money for charity. Good atmosphere too (standard prodecure in Flanders)

2yrs ago Big Boonen was also participating. Good times.

[Frolle]

...and back in 2009 he was flashing some very nice wheels on his cross bike

[RazorL]

...and back in 2009 he was flashing some very nice wheels on his cross bike

In 2009 i was on a mountainbike weekend in "Mol" (that's the place where the event take's place) it's also Boonen's home turf.
Boonen was also riding the organized TT's that weekend. I was riding behind him at some point when he was riding with that cross bike (and lightweight wheels). I can only remember my jaw constantly dropping, such a nice bike!

[KWalker]

There are some awesome Wolberg stories out there. Guy is a total hard ass nut job and legend. Worst guy to be in a break with. Way stronger than me and basically no draft.

Back I sort of on topic with disc breaks. I was descending with him last winter. A buddy of mine who works at specialized was on a disc brakes and was flying down the mountain. Eric shook his head and another person said its okay he's on disc brakes. Eric replies with "he's still on the same tires...". I laughed. He does a few local rides in the area and lives on Mt Hamilton.

I hope you laughed because of his misunderstanding of how brakes work. Comments like these are what annoy me most about the disc topic. Braking speed is not necessarily related to contact patch of the tire nor cornering speed, skid threshold, etc. Disc brakes modulate far better than most rim brakes and in many cases could decrease the likelihood of locking a wheel up. Furthermore, I really doubt most people are on the verge of washing out from outright speed in corners. In most amateur races its quite the opposite.

Just like many of us have learned how to use different shifting procedures for electronic vs. regular shifting (and now eTap), most will learn their braking curve in a few minutes.

Also interesting to see Nibali, one of the best descenders in the pro peloton, in favor of disc brakes, but basically worried about crashes amongst those that just aren't good bike handlers.

[Calnago]

Since we're all getting our two cents in, again....I don't really agree that contact patch isn't a huge factor when braking in adverse conditions. As is the patch of ground that the tire is contacting. Pavement is hard, with automobile oils mixing with water, making for a pretty slick surface at times. Versus nice soft loamy dirt that mountain bikes get to roll in. And road tires are high pressure and skinny, versus low pressure and fat for mountain bikes. The traction 'breakaway" threshold is way lower on a road bike than a mountain bike. All been discussed before. I keep thinking when I'm out riding in some really bad pouring rain on my rim brakes.... "would disc brakes really help me here?" And I've come to the conclusion that I'm more cautious about locking my wheels up in those conditions than the actual stopping power, or even modulation at that point. About the only advantage I see to disc brakes is that when it's very cold out and your hands are icy wet, the force it takes with a hydro disc lever is a lot less than with the rim brakes. But other than that... the disadvantages (for me at least), far outweigh the advantages.

[boots2000]

I have always maintained that tire traction is more the limiter to descending speed and safety as opposed to ability to brake.
That said, hydraulic discs are pretty awesome. If I had a road bike with discs it would have big tires, no doubt about it. 28-32mm.

There are some awesome Wolberg stories out there. Guy is a total hard ass nut job and legend. Worst guy to be in a break with. Way stronger than me and basically no draft.

Back I sort of on topic with disc breaks. I was descending with him last winter. A buddy of mine who works at specialized was on a disc brakes and was flying down the mountain. Eric shook his head and another person said its okay he's on disc brakes. Eric replies with "he's still on the same tires...". I laughed. He does a few local rides in the area and lives on Mt Hamilton.

[109er]

I "think", wheel and tire technology will change with the advent and prevalence of discs out on the road. Do I think it's progress? No. Wheels and tires are always getting better and better. We have not seen the pinnacle of wheel and tire technology. As new materials come into the fray, like graphene and few others, wheels and tires will only get better. Vittoria is a good example of this. Their graphene products and tech is no bs. I've ridden and raced their wheels for a year. I've been riding their new Corsa tires. A few teammates have the new Rubino's. They are far, far better than their older products that were some of the best. I can only imagine as they tweak and fine tune these products, that tires will become immensely better. Wheels as well.

However all that to say, discs are not bad. While I do not view it as progress, merely change, I think it's kinda cool. Discs to me represent the pinnacle of braking. Their performance and consistency far exceeds rim brakes. In every way except weight. Which I think they will soon exceed rim brakes in that department as well. They will be tweaked and made to fit the application of road racing and riding. I have no doubt in 10 years, they will be more commonplace and probably the norm. Wheels and tires will change as well. Wider rims and fatter tires will probably be the norm. Aerodynamics will improve as well. Everything. It'll all happen.

My only problem with it is, it's change for the sake of change. I race a lot and have for a long time. I've never thought, I need more in the stopping department. More modulation, more power, more anything. To me, rim brakes are fine. They do the job great. But if next year I had to race discs, I would. Happily.

[KWalker]

Crr tests of the new graphene tires show them to be quite a bit slower than many new offerings so I'm not sure how they're a positive advancement.

How is the pinnacle of braking not a positive change and not progress?

The change was going to happen. It was and is inevitable. In the end it makes a lot more sense for most consumers. Imagine a time when one wheelset can be used for CX, MTB, and road. Just like how the gravel-specific pseudo endurance bikes are now becoming much more mainstream. They're no better than most purpose-built bikes, but they represent the riding that many consumers who don't race are taking part in these days. Bike companies have to meet market demand. All the comments about being dangerous in races, wheel swaps, etc. don't apply to 99% of cyclists. We're a small bunch with little power to influence markets that are, in a way, regulated by the UCI and whatever it decides and the ability for manufacturers to apply pressure that translates into demand and thus change.

There was a time when the MTB world went through the same issue, but with even more brake formats. It emerged just fine, but unfortunately many standards. My biggest apprehension about all of this is the lack of axle standards, rotor dimension standards, piston power standards. I'd love to buy a disc bike this year, but unfortunately there are few thru axle QR road bikes at the moment and that standard will likely change. I wouldn't be surprised if axle width changed as well too.

[109er]

I haven't read any tests on the new Vittoria tires. I have read a few blogs of guys who received the same tires I did, the regular Vittoria Corsa. It's also a preproduction model. I've read a couple on the Corsa Speed in which those did test faster than a Conti TT which is a pretty fast tire.

But nothing from an independent lab.

But back to the brake topic, for consumers it is a positive from a maintenance/reliability standpoint. If I still worked in a shop, selling a bike with hydro's and Di2 would be really easy if you compared it to a bike with Di2 and regular caliper brakes. Just say, way less maintenance and reliability and you've already laid the seed.

A axle standard has to happen as well.

From a racing stance, they need to make the ability to change wheels a hell of a lot faster. Fluckinger this year at MTB worlds lost a podium spot due to a flat. His wheel change took what seemed like a lifetime. Unscrewing the wheel completely, putting the wheel in, then the skewer then screwing it on completely. It would have been a lot faster had he had quick releases. That would be one thing that would piss me right off. Waiting for a slow wheel change. ugh. But that too will be addressed hopefully.


I don't hate the idea. I think it will change a lot for sure. And I hope they fix some of the inherent problems with it and create some sort of standard.