2015 'PRO' cycling discussion

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

yeah, still the majority of pro cyclists ride for pennies. girls are in even worse position. I happened to have met only recently one of the most promising young talents in women's peloton, and well, she's so happy having a proper bike mech, doc, medical assistance.. paychecks? yeah, sure, she earns decent money compared to e.g. working behind a counter. but most of her friends who ride in lower grade teams often get as much as a racing bike and get their training/racing expenses covered. this is really, really appaling. in football, even in the 6th or 7th league there are teams that pay their players - and we're talking about a nearly amateur level! in Poland, not the Emirates or Switzerland!

but how can it be any different, if even amongst the enlighten members off WW you'll find a prominent poster who responds to the remarks about how women's cycling basically disdained "starting a feminism and equality debate" (citing from memory) :roll:
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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lippythelion
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by lippythelion

On the latest episode of Voxwomen, Jolien D'Hoore says that she has a pro contract with the Belgian national federation as well as with Wiggle-Honda. That is absolutely brilliant for her unless her federation are having to take up the slack of a poorly paid contract from her trade team.

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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

109er wrote:@pren

It varies quite a bit. Women's teams are of course ran on a tighter budget. I would say most women's teams, the title sponsor gives somewhere in the ballpark of $500k. For what would be "World Tour". Pro Continental and lower I would say the spectrum is wide. $500k would be a lot of teams entire budget. Others maybe not so much. Teams are pretty tight lipped on the ACTUAL number. For a mens Continental team, in the U.S., it's not a lot. $1,000,000 is most likely what the "richer" teams are dealing with. Credible programs like Optum and maybe Jelly Belly. Other Continental teams like Astellas or Champion System No-Tubes, probably operate in the neighborhood of half that at around $500k. But when the numbers are that big, it's hard to get it just right. At the same time, a Domestic Elite team in the U.S., (the step below Continental), operates anywhere from $50k to $200k. And they, a lot of the time, race against Pro Continental and Continental teams. It's also interesting to note, it is rare for Continental level riders to get paid. And if they are it is usually $5,000-$18,000. But usually they do not get paid. This is mens teams I am talking about. Women's...HA! They never get paid. And if they do it would be common for a very good woman to make closer to $18,000. MAYBE. It's pretty sad really.


Thanks 109er, awesome post and very insightful!!

I asked about the budget thing because over the past few days a series of events got me thinking about women's sports and the infrastructure to support it. Really it started with a local soccer league which e-mailed me asking if I would coach a Girls 14-16y.o. team into the playoffs because their parents were asking for me despite my not having coached a team in a few years. Apparently the girls I did coach had younger sisters who remembered me as a coach, parents too, etc:. I declined, but it got me thinking about it. Then I watched "Half the Road" recently and also reunited with a few girls I hadn't ridden with in years, and we talked about how they're trying to get more women riding and racing both on the roads and on the trails... and over the years, I had a much better feeling when I was supporting the girls and women into their entries to various sports (soccer or cycling) than I did when I was helping my bro friends get started. So I thought - what if one day I want to sponsor a women's team? Can I set myself a goal in business to have that sort of budget to do that and set a precedence for the sport (ie, racers get fair living wages as athletes)? Hence the question.

I was thinking on this morning's ride about all of the races I've seen over the years/decades/etc whether in person or on the screen, at any level, GTs or one-day courses... and most of the time the women's racing I've seen has been much more exciting. In other words, if I watched 10 women's races, at least 8 of them would have me paying attention to the attacks/breaks everything for the majority of the race and I'd be "on the edge of my seat" (figuratively) for the finish. When I watch the mens racing that maybe happens 4 out of 10 times. I also thought about how the 'further I go' in distance events the more even the field gets - there are a lot more women still out there when the distances get further on in ultras... they're built for endurance sports, no? Perhaps not so much in the pure power/speed thing, but distances are not a problem at all. I know more women marathon runners in my network of friends than I do male marathon runners, for example.

(easy example: 2012's London Olympics Women's Race was far more exciting than the Men's)

So I guess I've been thinking to myself that I want to watch more women's racing and I want to make it more prominent. Like tymon_tm points out I think we'll end up debating things on this, but frankly I'll just try to make the effort on my own part to watch more of it, make it more prominent, etc:. A lot of my riding friends are women and I want to see more of them out on the roads. More riders -> more interest in racing -> more media attention -> more sponsorship -> UCI starts paying attention... slow process, but whatever.


/thanks for reading the blog post. :lol:
Exp001 || Other projects in the works.

petelars
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by petelars

martinko wrote:ZIPP disc wheel on Cancellara's Trek Speed Concept TT bike? See at 3:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7TDwwvUFJQ


That's just the stand that holds the bike.

5DII
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by 5DII

petelars wrote:
martinko wrote:ZIPP disc wheel on Cancellara's Trek Speed Concept TT bike? See at 3:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7TDwwvUFJQ


That's just the stand that holds the bike.


No, it's a Zipp hubb. At 2:57 you can see the Zipp logo under the white stickers.

nathanong87
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by nathanong87

it needs to be something as bontrager still doesn't make a disc wheel right?

petelars
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by petelars

5DII wrote:
petelars wrote:
martinko wrote:ZIPP disc wheel on Cancellara's Trek Speed Concept TT bike? See at 3:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7TDwwvUFJQ


That's just the stand that holds the bike.


No, it's a Zipp hubb. At 2:57 you can see the Zipp logo under the white stickers.


Yes, it's a Zipp hub... My FFWD disc looks the same way, it's much narrower than a standard wheel, so there's a substantial spacer between the frame and the wheel on the non-drive side.

Edit:
Oh frack it. I thought you meant disc brakes. Nevermind, then. Zipp it is.

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djm
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by djm

The professional womens team Team Hitec Producs had a total turnover in 2014 of usd $250 000 in today's currency rate. Somewhat higher with the 2014 conversion rate, yet much lower than what people here have guesstimated.

http://www.proff.no/selskap/hitec-profe ... FY16S10LQ/

Edit: Also their books a re looking quite grim. Owner and CEO Karl Lima doesn't appear to be making much if any from this. Most likely he holds an ordinary part time job, at least I hope so :-)

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micky
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by micky

lippythelion wrote:On the latest episode of Voxwomen, Jolien D'Hoore says that she has a pro contract with the Belgian national federation as well as with Wiggle-Honda. That is absolutely brilliant for her unless her federation are having to take up the slack of a poorly paid contract from her trade team.


That happen in Italy not with Federation but with for example Army, Police, etc which has their own "sport groups"; it's a way for have a decent pay otherwise it would be very low for women.

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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

micky wrote:
prendrefeu wrote:@tymon_tm and @ave

Thanks!

Any data on women's though? How much does it take to sponsor a team (title sponsor)?
The only data I've heard was a 400k-500k (USD) for a continental, non pro-tour team. It was mentioned in the film "Half the Road"


I heard much much less for a minor asian Conti team.

It would have to be very minor. My team in 2012 had about that and it didn't allow for a very thorough race calendar.

irongatsby wrote:Wow... Had no idea some of these cyclists ride for next to nothing. smh...

You thought riders were being melodramatic when they would talk about how little cash they had?

nathanong87
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by nathanong87

irongatsby wrote:Wow... Had no idea some of these cyclists ride for next to nothing. smh...


and it probably hurts the 'market' that riders trying to chase pro dream will ride for nothing. So salaries will continue to remain low. Similarly i've heard with photography. The more photographers offer to submit their work for exposure for free or pennies, that hurts every else around them.

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irongatsby
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by irongatsby

Tinea Pedis wrote:You thought riders were being melodramatic when they would talk about how little cash they had?


Relax. I was simply expressing my surprise and disappointment at how little the average cyclist makes.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

nathanong87 wrote:
irongatsby wrote:Wow... Had no idea some of these cyclists ride for next to nothing. smh...


and it probably hurts the 'market' that riders trying to chase pro dream will ride for nothing. So salaries will continue to remain low. Similarly i've heard with photography. The more photographers offer to submit their work for exposure for free or pennies, that hurts every else around them.


I wouldn't draw a parellel here. being sort of a freelancer myself, it's obvious for me to lower my financial expectations when negotiating a deal that's also being chased by some bigger company. young photographers, architects, graphic designers, business consultants, etc, they all ask for less knowing they have to build a portfolio and a network of happy clients first - it's natural, but even then they earn pretty well.

in women's cycling, there's often simply no way to make any buck. you've no room to negotiate, because there's often nothing on or under the table. and still you want to ride. besides, most likely as a junior your parents (or some "uncle") sponsored your career, and you're sort of used to not even earning your keep. I agree it's pathological in a way that this whole circus spins around on the shoulders of exploited athletes, but the biggest issue is - there's no money in that system! how can there be any without TV coverage, without major sponsors, races, events..
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

prendrefeu wrote:
I was thinking on this morning's ride about all of the races I've seen over the years/decades/etc whether in person or on the screen, at any level, GTs or one-day courses... and most of the time the women's racing I've seen has been much more exciting. In other words, if I watched 10 women's races, at least 8 of them would have me paying attention to the attacks/breaks everything for the majority of the race and I'd be "on the edge of my seat" (figuratively) for the finish. When I watch the mens racing that maybe happens 4 out of 10 times.



I completely agree on the excitement part. women's racing is unpredictable (or at least looks that way), they often look like it's every gal for herself. I love that, miss this attitude in men's racing that's often dulled with "tactics", "strategies", "calculations" - simply boredom. (although, I'll say this again and again - this season was truly superb)

women's races are also significantly shorter, something men's cycling has to embrace eventually, because - let's face it - no one want's to watch the whole 200-250 km-long race or stage knowing the decisive stuff happens in the last 50 at best. and when they get there, they're too tired to put a decent show anyway.
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

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Tinea Pedis
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by Tinea Pedis

irongatsby wrote:
Tinea Pedis wrote:You thought riders were being melodramatic when they would talk about how little cash they had?


Relax. I was simply expressing my surprise and disappointment at how little the average cyclist makes.

I'm quite relaxed. Unless you think the mere act of replying is some sort of implicit sign of being worked up?

(in case it's also not obvious, that's a rhetorical question ;) )

Point was it's not a secret how slim the pay is, even for some World Tour team riders. And none of it is an exaggeration. That you're actually a member on this forum had me surprised that you (or anyone who reads/posts on here) had missed that. I don't expect as much from the general cycling public. Who think that riders even at an (Australian) national level are given bikes, wheels, all their gear, all race entries, etc. Which is simply not the case for the majority.

As far as getting rich goes, cycling sucks.

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