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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:04 am
Posts: 2693
Location: Mississippi
The weight around my midsection counts double......

Mosaic RS-1

Cielo by Chris King Cross Racer

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:09 am
Posts: 400
Rick wrote:
But the statement that "rotational weight counts double" is not exactly a "nonsensical idea" since it actually is counted "double" in the math...even though it does not apparently end up making the bike faster.
Indeed, mathematically it counts double but then get's evened out by sideeffects. But that's not what was being put forward:

Ozrider, since 600gms of that weight is rotatonal (wheels) you cant multiply that by 2 (1200gms) and the remainder of the 1500gms is static (900gms). In effect it' equates to 2100gms(2.1kgs) difference if the weight was static which is a significant amount considering upper end bikes are circa 7kgs

That's quite simply so missleading it's just nonsense.

Now to your hypothesis: This is not supported by the analysis, as that outcome actually indicates it's so small an effect that you hardly will notice it. This is pacelining which gives very minor speed jumps for very, very short periods. And to make that one even more apparent... we are talking loosing the group which means all meters are far in the red. At that moment we can notice a difference which for all purposes is unnoticeable?

Somehow people have this idea that a cyclist has much larger accelerations than we actually have. The forces involved are minor.

So the light bike effect is psychological for sure... PLACEBO. As with any of these things I'm certain a double blind test will show that it's all in between the ears. This has been shown by frame materials too, something which people still maintain they can feel.

=> Still talking Paceline, not talking climbing.

So to sum up: A lighter bike with same aerodynamic properties is a bit faster on the flats, but this is extremely minor. The reported differences are nowhere near what is supported by math. Weight at the rim or at the frame also doesn't really matter, it's the total weight that counts. Lastly, even Cavendish has a minor acceleration all things involved. That's not to downplay cycling, it's just how it works. Mass and acceleration are pretty small things in the whole picture (that changes quite a bit when climbing ofc).

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:17 pm 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:13 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:13 am
Posts: 65
Franklin wrote:
Again: your "no doubt" is based on faith, not physics. The location of the weight matters not. And now to go back to my post: I dismissed the nonsensical idea that rotational weight counts double. Are you not only arguing the math is wrong, you also argue it's twice as important? :mrgreen:

Oh and to nail that one down with Thor's hammer: The math show that when climbing wheel weight is not more important than frameweight... people here are arguing how light wheels help with the pacelining :roll:

Err... oops... I completely mis-read what was happening in the equations there. Indeed, location of weight doesn't matter...

That being said, generally "light" wheels goes hand-in-hand with stiffer, aero - which at least feel faster.

Anyways my main point here is how subjective this question really is. The more aero bike IS faster, that doesn't mean it feels that way...

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:32 pm 

Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 5:15 pm
Posts: 954
how about an old Schwinn not sure what year and weight but it's heavy ridden by this guy and he has no problem going up to 20%+ grade, check out the tool mount and bag.



2017 De Rosa King Xs
2017 Colnago C60
2017 Colnago Concept

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Posts: 5415
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
nismosr wrote:
check out the tool mount and bag
and the stem shifters, ha ha. The '70s and '80s called, they want their stem shifters back.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:53 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:09 am
Posts: 400
The whole picture of the bike, clothes and the legs tell me that that guy probably rides "quite a few miles" and could be tough as old leather boots.

But for the purpose of this thread; if he had a lighter bike he certainly would be faster in a climb. During the paceline it wouldn't matter as much, though that bag sure will catch some air which would certainly hamper his efforts.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:51 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:06 am
Posts: 1016
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Riding my heavier bike with 404 clinchers down a long hill feels awesome, solid, fast, stable

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ozrider - Western Australia
Parlee Z5 XL (6055g/13.32lbs) Trek Madone 5.9 (7052-7500g)Jonesman Columbus Spirit (8680g)
Chase your dreams - it's only impossible until it's done

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:35 am
Posts: 5072
Location: New York
You might notice the bike weight the first few rides but after that it will feel similar to a light bike. Fitness is king.

I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree

PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 6678
Location: Athens, Greece

My 6536gr TIME Skylon
My 9733gr COLNAGO Master X-light

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:59 pm
Posts: 166
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
I notice a bit of difference.

If both of the bikes were on the same wheels, I don't think it would be that noticeable.

Heavy bike uses 27" wheels with 1 1/8" wide conti's while the light bike uses kysriums with 23c front/25c rear. I may swap the 700c's to the heavy bike to try it out, but I wouldn't have the brake reach for the conversion and it would be dangerous.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:34 am 

Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 239
I don't really notice the difference when riding in a group, but it is measurable when I ride alone. On the same climbs, the best times on each bike clearly reflect their different weights. The time differences match fairly precisely what you can calculate for the different weights.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:54 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:17 am
Posts: 38
I only notice the heavier bike when I finish the ride and feel even more virtuous (smug!)

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:56 am
Posts: 36
I think the biggest feeling difference will be in the rotating weight (wheels tubes and tires). Otherwise, you'll feel a bit of it but the extra weight isn't as noticeable as we'd all like to believe.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:00 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:27 pm
Posts: 504
I have a 19 lb, bike and a 16 lb. bike. There is a huge difference between them but there is also the question of geometry, stiffness and fit. The 19 lb. bike really feels like being dragged through mud sometimes, can't really keep speed and just requires more effort to keep going. It's great for training. My 16 lb. bike flies in comparison, usually going much faster with dramatically less effort, flats and up hills. But I don't think you can just attribute it to a 3 lb. weight difference, there's definitely more going on.

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:00 am 

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:24 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:54 pm
Posts: 395
Location: Haines, AK - Temporarily
My two Podium water bottles (filled) weigh 1485g, or 3.28#.

I have never left a rest stop where I filled up and thought my bike felt harder to pedal, maintain speed, or accelerate. At any given time, I could not tell you how filled or empty those bottles were by the feel of my bike.

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