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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:09 am
Posts: 390
jpanspac wrote:
If you're in the back of a paceline and dealing with the accordion effect the extra weight could be noticeable. Even then, though, I think it's mostly psychological.


Considering the speed differences are neglible I'm certain it's just psychological. Again:accelerations in the paceline are small (even a jump is just a tiny acceleration). It's physics. the involved forces are very small. This is just like the blind tests that show that feeling frame material differences is mostly just between our ears. A human is not that sensitive, especially not when you are busy just keeping speed up and beating the other guy.

Does it matter? Everything matters. But it takes a very firm backseat towards aerodynamics. And for sprinters I'd bet stifness also trumps small weight differences. It's not because pro's are stupid that they don't skirt the weightlimit if they aren't in the hills. The gains are simply not big enough compared to other areas.


*Still talking flats and paceline here.


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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:24 pm 


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:23 pm
Posts: 99
I only have one road bike, so light/heavy is more a matter of which wheelset/tires I have on that day. And whether I'm wearing a backpack (I commute most of my riding miles).

So in that sense, yes, I feel it a ton. Especially since the go-fast goodies get put on after a drivetrain tune-up and wash, too. :) Physics-wise--there's not too much difference on pure weight

Perhaps a better question is: using the same wheels and tires, do you notice a difference riding your heavier bike? And how much better maintained is your light bike?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:48 pm
Posts: 88
Like many, i only notice the difference going uphill.
On the flat i can feel some comfort or rolling difference but it doesnt really change my speed or effort involved too much, not enough to notice a real difference in speed.

Uphill even 1kg makes a huge difference - being 1kg from my body or from the bike. Doing some uphill without my 2L of water (ie 2kg) i feel like a rocket and do quite a few km/h.

Note: im a noob, if that makes any difference. i ride about 40km on the weekends and 10km/day on weekdays


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:44 am
Posts: 379
I got my fastest times last year on my heaviest wheel set. My bike was still well under 7kg, so definitely (in the grand scheme of things) light, but no where near as light as I have had it previously and since. Not sure how this helps or adds to the debate, as it is purely theory, but I reckon it was a combination of me being at a time of extreme fitness peaking, and also the odd psychological effect of being able to properly go for it on gear that it is a bit older and I have ceased caring so much about.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:41 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Posts: 4764
Location: Canada
It is hard to say if it is just down to weight. I have been riding a Ridley Helium lately, but because I was testing a new reed switch in a Dura-Ace SRM I installed it on a Dogma and have been riding that. Now, there is no doubt that the Pinarello is. A lot heavier, but it also feels a lot more 'solid' in the front end. It was very noticeable. The thing is a real tank. I don't think that is just down to weight, but it is very apparent.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:09 pm
Posts: 2643
Most days I commute 40km (each way) to work. I usually ride this.

Image

On the days when I ride this one, my commute time is about 15 minutes faster in each direction.

Image

This is on a nearly pan-flat, North Holland road that runs north/south. The only big variable is wind.


Last edited by xnavalav8r on Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:26 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:09 am
Posts: 390
Rohloff Gear
More upright position
Windcatching fenders.
Windcatching luggage (I assume)

The difference is not the weight.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:25 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:03 am
Posts: 2351
Location: Islip, NY
Do you account for any variation in your own body weight? Weight of fluids you are carrying? Do you weigh your kit and factor in how sweat laden it is with each effort?

There can be more off the bike variation between efforts than the 1.5kg between bikes.





aerozy wrote:

EDIT: Actually did the numbers on here:
http://www.cyclingpowerlab.com/VAM.aspx
At my weight 60kg, going up a 10% 150m climb at a steady wattage of 360W my lightest bike should give me an extra 10seconds.


Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:22 pm 
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Posts: 5362
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
xnavalav8r wrote:
Most days I commute 40km (each way) to work. I usually ride this.

https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... 1185_o.jpg

On the days when I ride this one, my commute time is about 15 minutes faster in each direction.

Image

This is on a nearly pan-flat, North Holland road that runs north/south. The only big variable is wind.
15 minutes? Wow!! And to think how much faster yet you'd be if the bike had pedals. :beerchug:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:44 am
Posts: 379
HammerTime2 wrote:
15 minutes? Wow!! And to think how much faster yet you'd be if the bike had pedals. :beerchug:


Image

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:04 am
Posts: 558
Location: USA
Towards the end of the 90's I was really noticing how hard it was out on our fast training rides. I was still riding my steel Masi and Somec Air frames, which each weighed about 24.5 pounds. When I raced I could get them down to 22.5 to 23. When not racing, some regular stuff would be used.

Around 2000, bike's were really starting to shed weight. I finally caved and got a Felt F1, which was aluminum at that time. Built up at around 14.5 as I recall. Made a world of difference.

I continued to us the old steel frames on certain group rides, but as the years went by and bicycles continued to drop weight it ended up being impossible to ride the steel bikes on aggressive rides. Now no one that I know is riding 24 pound bikes for racing or fast training rides, and since I really enjoy the speed and efficiency of my 14.4 carbon bike I don't ride the steel ones any longer.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:57 pm 
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Posts: 2643
HammerTime2 wrote:
Wow!! And to think how much faster yet you'd be if the bike had pedals. :beerchug:



What? You never watched The Flintstones as a kid? :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:26 am
Posts: 414
Location: California's country side
notice difference with 0, 1 or 2 water bottles on the climbs..
definitely notice difference between 15 and 25 lb.. avg speed lower.

Question is would anyone notice much between 16 and 15 lbs??

Which, build cost will skyrocket just to get the 40g off each component gets down a pound.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:03 am
Posts: 202
Location: Queensland Australia
Yes. I notice a huge difference between my heavy bikes and my light ones. Rolling hills.
Naturally my light bikes have better components.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:52 pm
Posts: 218
Location: eNZed
Suggestion for those keen on experiments: stuff some lead down the seat-tube and ride the same flat course, OK adjust pressures if you like.

My mind tells me that it takes extra effort to propel a bigger load, incline or not.

Was it Eddy who said every gramme counts going uphill? Just making sure we all agree here, since on this board what Eddy says matters more than the likes of Einstein :wink:

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Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:02 pm 


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