PBK duty charges to US.

[phatphuk]

I found out the hard way, way back in the days of Netscape Navigator 2.0 or thereabouts, that all these big web stores are very crafty. They limit their liability with slyly-worded legalese in their Ts & Cs (Terms and Conditions). They're so slick that they've got us conditioned to not even want to read the Ts & Cs. Ever hear of "One Click" and the like?

There's invariably a certain little check box on the checkout page of every web store out there. You know the little whatchamajigger you have to click on or else you can't proceed to the payment page? Well, usually somewhere near to that little whatchamajigger (usually in size 2 font) is a link to the web store's Ts & Cs.

I learned a long time ago, that all of the fine print about shipping costs, hidden third-party handling fees is buried somewhere in the web store's Ts & Cs. Five will get you ten that if you dispute any of their hidden charges, by saying you didn't explicitly opt in, they will say that you did too. By virtue of you having clicked that little whatchamajigger.

If you take the time to read it, you'll typically see something like, "By clicking on this here whatchamajigger, you are entering into a contractual obligation that legally binds you to our Ts & Cs".

Love it or hate it. That's the way of the World Wide Web.

[bikerjulio]

you may be right @phat. It's certainly not mentioned anywhere in their overseas shipping information.

And this is a new thing for Wiggle. I've bought a few things over the past year without this happening.

When it came to addressing my complaint that a product description was wrong, their CS staff were most helpful. I'm interested to see how they handle this complaint.

I'm now in the same situation as the OP of this thread except I had the delivery before the invoice from DHL.

It's deceptive to say "free shipping" and also say that they have no control over taxes and duties being charged, when they have an arrangement with a broker who they know is going to charge "fees".

Some US sellers to Canada like Nashbar and Jenson, now include all Canadian duties and tax at checkout. I don't like it, and I don't buy from them, but at least they are up front about it.

[phatphuk]

...It's deceptive to say "free shipping" and also say that they have no control over taxes and duties being charged...

Ah! But therein lies the rub. It might just be a matter of semantics. But "shipping" is "shipping" (within the web store's control). And "custom fees" is "custom fees" (out of the web store's control).

[bikerjulio]

...It's deceptive to say "free shipping" and also say that they have no control over taxes and duties being charged...

Ah! But therein lies the rub. It might just be a matter of semantics. But "shipping" is "shipping" (within the web store's control). And "custom fees" is "custom fees" (out of the web store's control).

It's not "customs fees".

It's brokerage fees charged by a company with which they have a business arrangement.

Different, no?

[phatphuk]

...It's deceptive to say "free shipping" and also say that they have no control over taxes and duties being charged...

Ah! But therein lies the rub. It might just be a matter of semantics. But "shipping" is "shipping" (within the web store's control). And "custom fees" is "custom fees" (out of the web store's control).

It's not "customs fees".

It's brokerage fees charged by a company with which they have a business arrangement.

Different, no?

You're right. I stand corrected.

I definitely think it sux that they do it. But just playing the devils advocate, they do have this in their Ts & Cs.

ProBikeKit Terms & Conditions
...
The emails confirming receipt of your order and confirming dispatch will be sent to the email address given in your order and will detail products ordered, payment method, cost (including any VAT applied on orders in the European Union and delivery and handling charges). You should check all the details in these emails are correct and contact us as soon as possible if any details are incorrect. If your order has not been accepted, you will receive an email from us notifying you.
...
(Source: ProBikeKit.com)

And from the OP's email.

...
Declared Value: $351.37
...

You are required to pay the following United States Customs Duty and related fees in order to clear customs and have your parcel shipped to you:

Customs Duty: $1.57
Advancement Fee: $6.50
Handling Fee: $15.00
TOTAL: $23.07
...

I repeat. Devil's advocate point of view here. The Ts & Cs' "handling charges" probably refer to the "related fees" in the OP's order confirmation email snippet (the $6.50 and the $15.00).

From my devil's advocate interpretation of their legalese, they have not charged for "shipping" (in the strictest sense of the word). So they could successfully argue (in a hypothetical court of law) that they have honored their "Free Shipping" promise.

They could say that anybody who clicks through the checkout process has opted into accepting their Ts & Cs (because by clicking through, you are saying that you have read the Ts & Cs). Therefore as far as they are concerned anybody who gets as far as submitting a payment have "electronically" entered into a legally binding contract in which they've agreed to whatever handling charges they receive in the aforementioned "...emails confirming receipt of your order...".

Do I think it's a stand-up way to do business? Of course I don't. But it is what it is. Namely, The way of the World Wide Web.

Myself? When it first happened to me, I just bit the bullet and chalked it up to experience. From then on, I've committed myself to making back whatever I feel I've been unfairly charged, with my self-designated duty free system I mentioned a few posts ago. I figure it all balances out in the end

[sanrensho]

And this is a new thing for Wiggle. I've bought a few things over the past year without this happening.

Thanks for the heads up. Will be careful about ordering from Wiggle (and PBK) in the future.

[bikerjulio]

I've had an answer back from Wiggle saying that because it went through DHL therefore the fee. ????

So I asked why it went through DHL, or if this was now standard practice. Await the answer.

[phatphuk]

I've had an answer back from Wiggle saying that because it went through DHL therefore the fee. ????

So I asked why it went through DHL, or if this was now standard practice. Await the answer.

They're in good company:

Shipping costs & payment methods
...
For an extra charge delivery by DHL Express is possible,
contact us for the individual costs if you're interested.
...
(Source:weight weenie's parent company)

[bikerjulio]

At least they declare it and make it optional.

It's Wiggle's non-disclosure that's so vexing.

(I didn't ask for anything, just the "free" shipping)

[phatphuk]

As somebody else probably mentioned already, there has also been some changes afoot lately with eBay's custom/import fees all of a sudden being displayed on item pages along with the "shipping" fees:

Customs Information
...
• Review Customs & Duties for your sellers' country
• Be prepared to pay fees for customs and/or duties
...
(Source: eBay.com)

[bikerjulio]

Yes. i bought something on eBay a month ago that had all the duty, tax and fee tacked on at time of payment. They have a deal with FedEx. Not sure how it works but don't care that much as I've pretty much given up on them.

It's called their "Global shipping program". In my case there was no alternative offered, and it looks like eBay may lock a seller into this, since their suggestion is to look elsewhere if you don't like it.

If you don’t want to pay the import fees upfront then continue searching for similar products not shipped through the Global Shipping Program or that are shipped from within Canada. Depending on the price of the item, you still may have to pay import charges on international purchases when your item is delivered.

http://pages.ebay.ca/help/buy/shipping-globally.html

[phatphuk]

To be fair, I have found the best price for a lot of things there. Especially for used stuff.

In my opinion they are no better or worse in most regards than any other web store out there. They're just more successful at it.

Love 'em or hate 'em, but because of their position in the market, they are a useful study of how eCommerce in general operates. For example, they candidly disclose what buyers should expect when buying internationally:

RECEIVING INTERNATIONAL ITEMS: More Details

SHIPPING COSTS
...
Generally, buyers pay additional costs that may apply such as duties, taxes and customs clearance fees. For example, international rates may or may not include pickup and door-to-door delivery with customs clearance. Your package will arrive at your door, but then you might need to pay extra international fees.
...
(Source: eBay.com)

The above disclosure applies to every single web store out there, in my experience. The only difference is that eBay spells it out in plain English (as opposed to the legalese of your ProBikeKits and your Wiggles and what have you).

[bikerjulio]

There's a difference between disclosing a cost and paying up front, and getting a surprise bill later - no?

So far, Wiggle have not fallen back on the T&C argument. I'll give them a chance to respond to my last email.

[phatphuk]

There's a difference between disclosing a cost and paying up front, and getting a surprise bill later - no?
...

You're absolutely right.

[bikerjulio]

I got a sort of explanation and apology from Wiggle. Looks like I got a "free" upgrade to DHL. It was only a crankset in it's box, so the explanation as to the reason does not make much sense. More likely it was a mistake.

I am truly sorry for the inconvenience caused in this case.

Your order was upgraded for free to the courier DHL as it was too heavy/large to be accepted by our standard delivery option and so had to be sent on a tracked courier delivery service.

Once again, I sincerely apologise for the inconvenience this has caused you.