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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:11 am 
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hi,
after watching recently "The Armstrong Lie" i handed it over to some of my friends - apart from one triathlete buddy, most of them absolutely non related to cycling - basically to learn the civilians' approach. the feelings on both the film and Armstrong were mixed, but one thing, one observation i heard more than once - that Armstrong is infact a tragic character

now, we all know there was some hot thought exchange going on, both here and all over the internet forums, and my intention isn't to bring it back. what i'm curious is how you and your friends, not necesserally the cycling geeks, feel about the whole thing after seeing the movie.

after all what the media showed was pretty one sided and totally lacking any context. the movie on the other hand has introduced some nice variety of characters and perspectives to this case. i must say it's been very interesting for me as well, mostly due to the fact Alex Gibney (the director) actually shows people at their very imperfection. it appears the only choices LA was left with were the bad ones. ultimately should he choose not to dope, there wouldn't be no Armstrong in the first place. but was that even an option given his personality, resulting greatly from his childhood experiences, taking the best of him?

it's fairly easy to make harsh judgments from an armchair perspective, and i'm glad this movie, and what's more important - the characters introduced, aren't about that at all. IMO it's a really solid piece of documentary everyone should watch, especially those who believe in a black and white world :thumbup:

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Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:11 am 


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:27 am 
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I haven't watched it but after reading this review I'm unsure if I actually want too!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling/another-enormous-con-job-29992667.html

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:38 am 
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dereksmalls wrote:
I haven't watched it but after reading this review I'm unsure if I actually want too!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling/another-enormous-con-job-29992667.html

and that is probably a good account of what you are going to see ...


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:35 am 
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I really enjoyed it as it was a cinema screening and got to see cycling on the big screen.

One of the most interesting things in the movie is the insight it gives into Armstrong's personality. You come away with the nagging feeling that nothing he said in the film was 100% true and that he is still trying to control the narrative.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:37 pm 
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maquisard wrote:
One of the most interesting things in the movie is the insight it gives into Armstrong's personality. You come away with the nagging feeling that nothing he said in the film was 100% true and that he is still trying to control the narrative.
Was this a new insight for you? Or perhaps it confirmed what you already believed?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:08 pm 
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one thing's for sure, it's not a documentary about the doping fraud. IMO it's a good thing, because if one want's the facts and evidence of the USADA investigation, there's plenty availible online - no need for extra commentary from a biased director, which ever side he would lean to.

what this movie focuses on is Armstrong's 2009 comeback put in this larger context. it's interesting how some aspects look different few years later (like e.g. Contador - Armstrong team leadership situation, or even the Simeoni case) and how the whole pro peloton appears crooked and dirty.

besides, if a movie solely about Armstrong's doping fraud was to be made, it ought to show the big picture. and it would take much more than just 2 hours... 'The Armstrong Lie' scratches the surface of doping in pro peloton in general, but frankly it's able to do just that, as there's hardly any evidence apart from "he said, she said" and a few random drug busts. drawing a line from there to a (very apparent) conclusion Armstrong's a villain amongst thieves, and doping's the way to go in pro cycling, would inevitably result in very damaging law suits. on the other hand, showing Armstrong as a single corrupt individual wouldn't be simply fair or true and therefore worth viewer's attention. we'll probably never have the full, official, disclosure as there are no investigations in those matters, so what incentive given individuals have to open up and tell the truth?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:18 pm 
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I just downloaded it and watched the first 1/2 hour so far.

Not real surprises yet, though I was surprised they did not mention the hospital bed PED discussion.

edit.

now seen the whole thing and they saved it for later. still no surprises.

kinda like Betsy :wink:

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Last edited by bikerjulio on Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:39 pm 
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watched it last night too. Just confirms and reaffirms many of my feelz.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:34 am 
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Saw it a while ago. My take away had little to do with cycling. I think the root question was if he had done more good than bad. Regardless of how it was done or how he enriched himself, he did bring hope to a lot of people....of course there was a big price for that and cycling is still picking up the bill. That's not to say that cycling wasn't already dirty, he just exploited and leveraged it in new ways. It's so similar to the banking crisis in my eyes. Take now, pay later.

One interesting tidbit from the movie was Bruyneel and Riis talking from the cars about how they had to get rid of Wiggo.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:56 am 
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getting the movie now, very interested how this will pan out.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:45 pm 
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more thoughts:

They couldn't get Greg to talk?? or any of his exes? or Tyler? or Floyd? (would liked to have seen that).

The whole Livestrong Foundation part was skimmed over. ie where the money really went, how much LA was paid etc. All we got was LA in the hospital, and a little girl being told that the money went to cancer patients - with no rebuttal or follow-up.



On the good side I liked the Alberto vs Lance bits. If I was Alberto I'd have been pretty pissed too at that situation.

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There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:46 pm 
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in the contest of cheating, its who cheats more or better wins... sounds familiar to a lot of whats going on nowadays, like banks!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:15 pm 
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It's the new morality.

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There's sometimes a buggy.
How many drivers does a buggy have?

One.

So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GekiIMh4ZkM


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:19 pm 
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its unfortunate, but more true than i'd like to believe


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Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:19 pm 


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:32 pm 
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It's a decent documentary to watch. I enjoyed it although I knew most of it. It shows the truth about that lie.


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