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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:28 pm 
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Location: Toronto, Canada
HammerTime2 wrote:
I don't see why, other than need for high price, limited market size, and potential liability issues, someone could not produce something similar to an adjustable inclination running treadmill, but bigger, heavier dutier, and able to handle (much) higher speeds of cycling, with appropriate safety safeguards. I think that perhaps describes the Super Trainer, but perhaps it need not be that large or heavy.


Lemme expand little bit on this topic. Yes treadmill would be the ultimate tool but there is a problem here. It will work just fine on simulating steep incline but what about small grades/flats? Due to lack of air resistance your bike wheel can reach crazy RPM on flats. Insideride handled this situation by basically tying cable to the rear of your bike and that cable was connected to force sensor. This way they can measure your pedaling force and adjust speed of treadmill accordingly to whatever simulation model they run. But then if you ease up on pedals the slack of the cable has to be immediately retracted. This will surely affect force measuring great deal. The same with rocking your bike. This type of movement will constantly pull on cable producing extra force where in reality there should be none. Nightmare of problems. If you were really to design such unit properly the complexity of such mech while keeping accurate measurement and instant reaction would be prohibitively expensive. And try to imagine the sound of treadmill running at 20mph ;)

If however you replace treadmill belt with single large diameter rotor and fix bike's front to avoid employing that crazy cable system you get Lynx ;) As for incline. if Lynx sells in enough quantities it'd be very easy to add an accessory that will raise/lower the front of bike mount and you get your incline.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:50 pm 
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kostya416, it would appear that you are affiliated with veloreality ... not that there's anything wrong with that. If so, you should clearly state your affiliation, and request the moderators to show your industry status on your profile, which will be seen with all your posts.


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Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:50 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:08 pm 
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HammerTime2 wrote:
kostya416, it would appear that you are affiliated with veloreality ... not that there's anything wrong with that. If so, you should clearly state your affiliation, and request the moderators to show your industry status on your profile, which will be seen with all your posts.


Oopsy. I though I did put it in my signature. Appears that somehow I did not really submit it. Should be fixed now. I work at Veloreality. I developed Lynx and the software.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:58 pm 
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kostya416 wrote:
expect the price of a trainer to drop to around $2000 in a matter of days.


This product will be super marketable but you must include the ability to rock the bike (like the Kurt Rock & Roll), and also the ability for virtual grade changes to change the inclination of the bike/rider all seamlessly without lag and keep it all less than $2000 .

For software, do something like Elites free MyRealVideos App, where users can upload their rides for others to ride virtually along with the ability to do Google Earth rides that the user can create.

Forget about steering creating virtual input - al la Tacx.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:10 pm 
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Craigagogo wrote:
This product will be super marketable but you must include the ability to rock the bike (like the Kurt Rock & Roll), and also the ability for virtual grade changes to change the inclination of the bike/rider all seamlessly without lag and keep it all less than $2000 .


Where in Ontario do you live? If you can visit Toronto you are invited for test session. After that you can make your conclusion and share it on the forum. If this sounds good then call Kostya at 416 888-4314.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:58 pm 
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Location: Lac Beauport, Quebec
to the OP : Get the kickr or wait for the lynx to drop at 2000$ if you want to do realife videos.
removing the back wheel is really not a pain compare to changing tire ;-) and the feeling on the kickr is great !
I have a kickr, an e-motion rollers and a kurt kinetic road machine and the kickr is my choice to train except when someone want's to try the kickr !
I use traineroad in erg mode and veloreality software in real life mode (that's what I like to ride the most !)
Before getting the kickr I was using my powertap to ride on the e-motion rollers with veloreality videos and it was a nice improvement on what I was doing, but now with the kickr I can really feel the climb !! I have now to take some rest days before doing another big climb (like ventoux, mortirolo, stevio etc...) because my quads can definitly feel the grade (don't understand why some here are arguing you can't climb on a trainer ??)
now with the rear free the lynx should be even better than the kickr but didn't have a try on it...

also I know inside ride are working to deliver a ant+ resistance controllable addition to the e-motion rollers in the coming months... wonder how this will feel, but I don't think the emotion roller can get a big resistance-feel without slippage...

anyways all theses new trainers and technologies are just a plus to all of us and now I actually LOVE training in my basement !
Thanks Kostya for your great software !


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:41 pm 
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@villeneuve80

Thanks! I believe your post just convinced me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:57 pm 
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uncle-gee wrote:
@villeneuve80

Thanks! I believe your post just convinced me.


happy to share my experience !
not trying to convince :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:38 pm 
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Does anybody know what this bicycle "treadmill" is, and if it's possible to buy one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJKzWFGjr2c
Does it have adjustable inclination?
Check out the wheelie at 1:43.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:00 pm 
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kostya416 wrote:
If however you replace treadmill belt with single large diameter rotor and fix bike's front to avoid employing that crazy cable system you get Lynx ;) As for incline. if Lynx sells in enough quantities it'd be very easy to add an accessory that will raise/lower the front of bike mount and you get your incline.


This comes up now and again, but I don't think it is compelling. Someone made an after market device for the CompuTrainer to do this some while back. I don't have specific experience with it, but I recall seeing some forum discussion where it didn't make a considerable difference.

I'm in the camp that is a bit skeptical about the need to fiddle with the incline of the bike as it relates to climbing, and I'm a hill climb specialist. I do find that I need over the winter to hit some hill climbs outdoors periodically to keep my upper body strength in check. Maybe this is what people are referring to, but I find the trainer is fine for simulating gradients up to 8%, which covers the vast majority of cases. Even then, watts are watts for the most part.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:43 pm 
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It's not just the upper body. I believe true climbing brings different leg (lower body) muscles into play than flat riding with high resistance. So for example, producing 300W against high resistance (wind, rolling, or whatever) on a 0% grade is different than producing 300W up a 6% grade, and works muscles differently. No amount of course profiles and video games change the fundamental nature of which muscles are being worked in what manner. When I climb, my (massive) quadriceps are brought more into play than riding on flat ground - I can not adequately simulate the effect of climbing by riding in a high gear on flat ground.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:35 am 
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HammerTime2 wrote:
Inside Ride produced a small number (at least one, anyhow) of something called the "Super Trainer" <edited out links and pictures - refer to my quoted post on the previous page for them) and was basically a giant adjustable incline treadmill for riding your bike. That was real climbing. A couple of years back, I inquired with Inside Ride about the availability of the Super Trainer, and was told that it was not being produced or available, but that they were considering making a home unit which would have adjustable inclination, though about the same size as, or not much bigger than, emotion rollers, and at a similar or slightly higher price to emotion rollers. ... But my hopes aren't very high.
...

I don't see why, other than need for high price, limited market size, and potential liability issues, someone could not produce something similar to an adjustable inclination running treadmill, but bigger, heavier dutier, and able to handle (much) higher speeds of cycling, with appropriate safety safeguards. I think that perhaps describes the Super Trainer, but perhaps it need not be that large or heavy.

It's current asking price means you're going to have to be Lance Armstrong (or maybe Robin Williams) to consider buying a Super trainer (and getting a 900lb device into your home is going to be interesting too) but prototypes are always spendy - how long till a home version costs $1,000?
Answer: At least 10 years, maybe infinity until a home unit is even available, never mind the price.
I have received a reply from Larry, the developer of the Super Trainer and emotion rollers.
Larry wrote:
Like you, I believe the ultimate riding machine will be a treadmill with incline. The thing is it's also the toughest to design. Such a device is never far from our thoughts, but is not coming any time soon. It is likely to be sized somewhere between the rollers and the original treadmill. The one thing I can guarantee is that no one else will build one before we do. There's very little demand for it. Even so, the challenge is too cool to ignore.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:30 pm 
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I've been using a CT with Ergvideos, which are unbeatable for structured training as they are scaled to FTP and can be customized for intervals. However, I'd really like to try the veloreality vids as a break, as they are not "erg" mode but real world resistance modeled, and it looks like the video is outstanding. Unfortunately, you need a 64 bit OS to use the software. Considering the upgrade, but it would require reinstalling all the programs and many of the drivers on my machine...some of which are single use licensed. Any chance of a 32 bit version?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:32 pm 
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glepore wrote:
I've been using a CT with Ergvideos, which are unbeatable for structured training as they are scaled to FTP and can be customized for intervals. However, I'd really like to try the veloreality vids as a break, as they are not "erg" mode but real world resistance modeled, and it looks like the video is outstanding. Unfortunately, you need a 64 bit OS to use the software. Considering the upgrade, but it would require reinstalling all the programs and many of the drivers on my machine...some of which are single use licensed. Any chance of a 32 bit version?


I use Sufferfest erg videos with Trainerroad, and yes I'm using veloreality pretty often too, but not so much of a "break" since I like to do some big climbs ;-)... Biggest problem I have now is finding how to have enough rest :roll:

Since I was on a mac I did have to get a used PC with 64bit windows, but that was worth it !


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Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:32 pm 


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:16 pm 
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I've gone to bluetooth nearly with everything.. veloreality vids bring me back to ant+.. which is a bummer… only my power meter works with ant+.


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