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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm
Posts: 1390
The point is that even as a cyclist you are still paying for roads. You seem to think that once you become a cyclist you stop being a tax payer. As a motorist, tax payer, or consumer of services that tack on fuel surcharges you are paying money out of your pockets for roads. BTW roads predate motor vehicles. They were built as a way to move around, and that even includes by bike.


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Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:03 pm 


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 1439
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Talking who pays what taxes is irrelevant (although one of the bike hater's justifications).

Cyclists have a legal right to the road, period. There is no "... if they pay enough taxes" clause.
The amount of taxes that other road users think you pay does not determine right of way.
Motorists do not get to run over cyclists who they think didn't pay enough taxes.

As far as blame goes in this case- the operator of a 4000lb potential death machine has a legal and moral duty to ensure that it does not hurt other people. Even if those other people may be cyclists who can't ride as straight a line as you and I can. Given that it is far likelier that the incident was the driver's fault rather than the fault of the cyclist. But absent a third party observer we are unlikely to know the true story.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:55 pm
Posts: 1807
Location: Vienna, AUT
sugarkane wrote:
You are 8 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than a terrorist in the USA... :noidea:
So it's not very surprising


Intriguing stat, but without further support or background, it is open to interpretation.
Does this indicate that USA authorities have done an effective job of mitigating terrorist attacks on US soil?
And how many of those police shootings were righteous?
Answers to those two clarification questions might be more surprising.
Just saying...

However, I agree, the bike lane, regardless of whether there is a fixed barrier or a painted line, if it is there, it needs to be respected and enforced heavily. Terrible about the death and the police need to be held accountable. The much too late interview with the officer should be intriguing as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:48 pm
Posts: 16
guess what, peds don't pay road tax either, let's run over them at intersections.
'Bout the same thing really. Senseless.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am
Posts: 360
There are more motorist that are pedestrians than cyclists [maybe even can argue all motorist are pedestrians]. And I do not believe anyone has mentioned that we should be running over anyone.

But, if the pedestrians are insisting they need a 2 million dollar bridge that are only used by pedestrians, then they should pay a portion for it.

Usually, the the motorist are insisting that the pedestrians are in the way and are more than willing to pay for a 2 million dollar bridge so they can get to where they are going.

As a cyclist, I would be happy to pay a tax to stop hearing the valid argument that as a cyclist, I do not pay for the road. As a citizen, I think most of us are tired of not getting our money's worth for the taxes we pay.

Again, it still would not stop accidents.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:00 am
Posts: 245
Location: Bay Area, CA
Butcher wrote:
As a cyclist, I would be happy to pay a tax to stop hearing the valid argument that as a cyclist, I do not pay for the road. As a citizen, I think most of us are tired of not getting our money's worth for the taxes we pay.


That's not a valid argument, as numerous people have pointed out.

The delay in interviewing the officer is really disappointing. A sheriff's deputy hit three cyclists, killing two of them, about six years ago around here (Bay Area, CA) and the response was equally disappointing, quite different than if it had been an ordinary driver instead of an officer.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Posts: 1439
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Butcher wrote:
As a cyclist, I would be happy to pay a tax to stop hearing the INvalid argument that as a cyclist.


Fixed it for you. And congratulations, you're already paying that tax! So you can be happy now.

If you don't beleive me about the tax, look it up yourself rather than believing what others tell you.
By look it up I mean in government documents. Go to the source.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:09 pm
Posts: 2309
Is there any news on the actual story? Has the police officer been charged/disciplined/fired/executed?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:47 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:31 pm
Posts: 312
Stolichnaya wrote:
sugarkane wrote:
You are 8 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than a terrorist in the USA... :noidea:
So it's not very surprising


Intriguing stat, but without further support or background, it is open to interpretation.
Does this indicate that USA authorities have done an effective job of mitigating terrorist attacks on US soil?
And how many of those police shootings were righteous?
Answers to those two clarification questions might be more surprising.
Just saying...

However, I agree, the bike lane, regardless of whether there is a fixed barrier or a painted line, if it is there, it needs to be respected and enforced heavily. Terrible about the death and the police need to be held accountable. The much too late interview with the officer should be intriguing as well.


If you are looking to source these and other alarming statistics, I recommend, "Rise of the Warrior Cop" by Radley Balko published this year. Obviously, this is not a forum for discussions of this nature, but since you requested an authoritative, objective, thoroughly referenced repository of such information, I've provided one for you. Unwilling to spend the money for the book? Try the ACLU web site. Potentially "prejudiced"? Try a web search and you'll find a plethora of data on the topic.

KAC


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