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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:34 am 
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Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 6:43 pm
Posts: 2716
Butcher wrote:
How about if we convince the bicycle community to pay additional taxes to make roads just for us.
As a cyclist, i already pay a metric shitload of tax for roads. Doesn't seem to help.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:37 pm 
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Posts: 274
this same thing just happened to my co-worker two days ago. I ride home daily and he wanted to start doing it too. so he went out and bought a bike and on his first ride home was hit by a cop car while being in the bike lane. He is alive thank god but had 13 hour surgery to repair two compound fractured legs. He too went through the windshield of the car. This happened in Fontana, CA and the police chief came by to let him know that he was sorry and that the officer was distracted. I thought this was just a freak thing but this just happened the same week. How many people know someone that was hit by a car?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:48 am
Posts: 762
Location: Mountains, Portugal
^ Shocked! :unbelievable: What are cops smoking over there?

As for the "paying more tax" theme, funny enough yesterday I had a bloke open his windscreen and shout the common "you dont pay road tax so get off the road you wanker!" line. This has happened to me so many times its not even funny. Again another misconception, there is no such thing as "road tax" or "car tax". Anyone that works pays tax and its with that money that councils build roads. Conclusion: I work, I pay taxes, I have as much right to the roads as the bully motorist.

In London there seems to be a campaign to improve road safety after 6 deaths in two weeks. Yesterday at every red light there were cops finning cyclists left and right. Im ok with this as there are loads of idiot cyclists over here but what is the government doing on the motorist end of things? I dont see vans/lorries getting pulled over for reckless driving.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:05 am
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i don't know!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:09 pm
Posts: 2643
In the United States, various taxes help pay for roads and other public infrastructure. The common misconception is that people on bike don't pay excise or other taxes associated with owning a motor vehicle. Ironically, the vast majority of bicyclists in America also own cars and pay the same taxes as any other non-bicycling car owner. So, not only do we pay taxes but, by riding our bikes and driving cars less, we are actually paying more than our fair share to help maintain roads and public infrastructure.

Some very progressive nations are adjusting taxes based on miles driven. I like that idea.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:14 pm 
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Location: Pedal Square
liketoride wrote:
How many people know someone that was hit by a car?

How many regular/serious cyclists do you know who have never made contact with a car.

aerozy wrote:
Conclusion: I work, I pay taxes, I have as much right to the roads as the bully motorist.

There is that, and the fact that many cyclists (dare I say the majority?) also own a car, thus of course also paying all the vehicle related taxes. Dunno where the "road tax" thing comes from, pure propaganda.

Thankfully I live in a place where traffic is manageable, the worst roads can usually be avoided, and most drivers are sane enough.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:56 pm 
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Posts: 706
Just to make my point clear. As a motorist, I pay a fair share of road taxes. Most of them are from gas tax. As a motorist, the taxes I pay I want to be used for the roads I use.

As a cyclist, I pay $0 dollars of road taxes. I will not and would never expect others to pay for the roads I use as a cyclist. If that happens, great, but I'm not expecting it. For me to whine about the motorist not paying for the roads I use for my bike, is just insane. I've seen and ridden on many bridges just for bikes, knowing that I did not pay for them as a cyclist. It's a lot like going to the food bank and complaining about the free food you are getting.

Yes, I do believe I do not get my moneys worth with the taxes I pay. But come-on, stop whining about something your not paying for. And all the 'bike only' roads in the world will not eliminate accidents.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:00 am
Posts: 453
Location: Bay Area, CA
Butcher wrote:
Just to make my point clear. As a motorist, I pay a fair share of road taxes. Most of them are from gas tax. As a motorist, the taxes I pay I want to be used for the roads I use.


Haha, no.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:17 pm 
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Location: New York
About 70 percent of the construction and maintenance costs of Interstate Highways in the United States have been paid through user fees, primarily the fuel taxes collected by the federal, state, and local governments. To a much lesser extent they have been paid for by tolls collected on toll highways and bridges. The Highway Trust Fund, established by the Highway Revenue Act in 1956, prescribed a three-cent-per-gallon fuel tax, soon increased to 4.5 cents per gallon. In 1993 the tax was increased to 18.4 cents per gallon, where it remains as of 2012
The rest of the costs of these highways are borne by general fund receipts, bond issues, designated property taxes, and other taxes. The federal contribution comes overwhelmingly from motor vehicle and fuel taxes (93.5 percent in 2007), and it makes up about 60 percent of the contributions by the states. However, any local government contributions are overwhelmingly from sources besides user fees. The portion of the user fees spent on highways themselves covers about 57 percent of their costs, with about one-sixth of the user fees being sent to other programs, including the mass transit systems in large cities. In the northeastern United States, some large sections of Interstate Highways that were planned or constructed before 1956 are still operated as toll roads. Others have had their construction bonds paid off and they have become toll-free, such as in Connecticut (I‑95), Maryland (I‑95), Virginia (I‑95), and Kentucky (I‑65).


A bicycle lane with painted lines on the road is just a guide path for a bicycle. It is safer than having no lines on the road but not as safe as a barrier. But barriers are costly to build and maintain.
So the ability to ride in traffic falls on the cyclist. If you do not feel comfortable riding with cars even with the painted white lines on the road don't ride there. If you expect all motorist to obey the bike lane rules don't ride in the bike lanes: you will be hit by a car, truck, motorcycle or pedestrian guaranteed.
It's better to take the bike to a park and ride there or ride the lonely country road.
Don't ride in the city plain and simple.
Now if you want to ride in the city and accept the responsibility and risk then get educated on how to ride in the city. Remember that you are the only one that is the determining factor or your destiny based on your own decisions when riding in the same place as motorists.

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I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:43 pm 
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Posts: 544
Location: Sitting over the center of the Earth.
Officer will be interviewed about the accident on Monday. That's a week after the accident, CYA policy in effect!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:23 am
Posts: 440
Butcher wrote:

As a cyclist, I pay $0 dollars of road taxes. I will not and would never expect others to pay for the roads I use as a cyclist.


Local sales tax, my property taxes, and a property tax bond go towards road construction here California. As a cyclist I pay a lot of money to build and maintain roads.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:39 pm 
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Location: New York
Most of it the money for roads comes from fuel tax and tolls. But when you factor in the number of cyclists road usage versus the wear and tear caused by both motorists and the environment cyclists really do not cause any road damage through usage.
So to have cyclists pay a separate tax to use the road it is ludicrous. Most cyclists are motorists as well so they end up paying a double tax.

Now if they offered a discount to anyone that held a drivers license and a cycling license.... :smartass: :lol:

_________________
I never took drugs to improve my performance at any time. I will be willing to stick my finger into a polygraph test if anyone with big media pull wants to take issue. If you buy a signed poster now it will not be tarnished later. --Graeme Obree


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:06 am 
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Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 4:43 pm
Posts: 5353
Location: Wherever there's a mountain beckoning to be climbed
Paying taxes is one thing, Paying with your life is another.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:19 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:28 pm
Posts: 1405
http://taxfoundation.org/article/gasoli ... d-spending

According to this article motorist only pay for about 1/3 of the roads. The rest is being payed from the general fund. I love the very rigid Cyclist vs. Motorist arguments. Reminds me of the Tax Payers vs. Union Members debates. Seems you can only be one thing these days in America.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:58 am
Posts: 706
I agree that cyclist do not cause a lot of wear/tear on the roads. Even the argument that non users are paying for the roads. We are users and we demand 'special' roads, bridges, trails, and 'what not' for our needs.

Yes, the general funds pay for a lot of stuff for the roads, but I have a difficult time justifying that as a user of those 'special' roads, that I pay nothing for them [no more than the average citizen]. Recently a cyclists sued [and won] the government for a road that was not up to par.

Still to keep on task, accidents happen. We slip and fall all the time. It is not always someone else's fault. It is not right to ruin a another life on a true accident. It will not turn back time or prevent another one.


Last edited by Butcher on Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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